Blue smoke on cold start/cold outside

[liberty2701]

Here are some the logs I have been hauling out of the woods with my Tafjun 35.

 

[liberty2701]

Now that it has been det. that the high sulphur heating oil was the problem, do you think it has done anything to my tractor ( tiers 3). Other than the smoke on the cold start it always ran fine. I burned through 150 gals of the fuel all spring/summer until the cold came and the smoke started. I still have 150 gals in drums. Do you think i could use it in the warmer weather or discard it into the heating oil tank? It is also 40 cents less a gal than off road diesel.

 

[Coyote machine]

Now that it has been det. that the high sulphur heating oil was the problem, do you think it has done anything to my tractor ( tiers 3). Other than the smoke on the cold start it always ran fine. I burned through 150 gals of the fuel all spring/summer until the cold came and the smoke started. I still have 150 gals in drums. Do you think i could use it in the warmer weather or discard it into the heating oil tank? It is also 40 cents less a gal than off road diesel.

If you're asking if running the high sulfur diesel has done damage to your engine it's a roll of the dice at best from where any of us are seated. I doubt it has done any long term harm, keep in mind it was NOT designed to run on that fuel, and proved the point by it's cold running smoking.
You still have some puffs of smoke likely indicating unburned fuel bypassing the combustion chamber and passing through to the exhaust. Why run what you know is problematic? $0.40/gallon for 150 gallons, versus the cost of the tractor as an investment? Not if it were mine. Give it what it needs, and put the old fuel in your furnace. Life is short- move on and consider yourself lucky.:thumbsup:

 

[liberty2701]

If you're asking if running the high sulfur diesel has done damage to your engine it's a roll of the dice at best from where any of us are seated. I doubt it has done any long term harm, keep in mind it was NOT designed to run on that fuel, and proved the point by it's cold running smoking.
You still have some puffs of smoke likely indicating unburned fuel bypassing the combustion chamber and passing through to the exhaust. Why run what you know is problematic? $0.40/gallon for 150 gallons, versus the cost of the tractor as an investment? Not if it were mine. Give it what it needs, and put the old fuel in your furnace. Life is short- move on and consider yourself lucky.:thumbsup:

I agree. Thanks

 

[liberty2701]

Did a little rsearch into the heating oil. The only diff l have been told is the sulphur content. It is refined and filtered the same as Ulsd for impurities. If anything the higher sulphur will add more lubricity to the engine/ fuel system. I know my tractor is tier3, but where are the emission controls that this could cause problems with? I see nothing of any kind in my service manual. Looks like a regular diesel engine fuel system. Just trying to understand completely why it smoked more on a cold start. My feeling is the cetane is lower than ulsd. My reading on cetane is that this number directly affects how easily it ignites when cold. Kind of explains as to why it ran completely fine after the cold start.

 

[ritcheyvs]

My research says DF2 and HHO2 are very similar. BUT HHO is a generic term that may include HHO3, HHO4, Kerosene, etc. Furthermore, winter Diesel is DF2 that is blended with DF1 (aka Kerosene) or other (cheaper) additives to inhibit jelling. The term "jelling" is a bit misleading; what actually occurs is the formation of small crystalline waxy solids that can plug filters and interfere with the injector spray patterns. So HHO might be the same as DF2 (and might not) but it's probably not the same as winter Diesel.

Oh, and sulfur is irrelevant except reduced sulfur also reduces lubricity and may cause seals to leak but it makes the tree huggers happy. Sulfur would matter only if the exhaust system used some catalytic device.

ps: The anti-jell additives don't prevent the wax crystals from forming but they prevent the crystals from merging into the larger chunks that create problems. But if the fuel has already jelled, these additives won't do any good until the fuel is warmed and the crystals dissolve.

 

[Coyote machine]

Tier 3, Tier 4, etc. use different methods, controls, to effect end results for emissions standards for diesel engines. Tier 3 not as much as interim Tier 4, and Tier 4 final requirements. Diesel injector nozzles are very fine tuned at the factory before release to the consumer. Most manufacturers build them in clean rooms that are extremely dust/particulate free.
When fuel that has larger than normal particles of diesel try to pass through the injector it can jam the injector, cause pee like spray patterns or worse. This results in unburned fuel and less than ideal combustion. This results in smoking, poor fuel economy, etc.
Winterized or 'cut' diesel fuel in the Northeast states usually has Kero added to make it flow better, and to keep it from freezing in the diesel filters that may have trapped water in them from extracting same from the tank's condensation.
We used to use Red Line Diesel fuel catalyst for ALL our diesel foreign autos when I had my shop. Often the cars would come to the shop from having been on the mountain(s) overnight and they would be dead. Drained batteries, block heaters that couldn't overcome the effects of frozen fuel, etc. We'd take them into my shop and raise them on the lift and drain the oil and filter and fuel filter and fill the fuel tank with 'cut' diesel and Red Line. After several hours thawing out we'd send them on their way, with a big bill, and instructions on how to survive in the mountains of Vermont. These were mostly vacationers or tourists, but they all learned it takes more than a Mercedes to get through the winter here.

 

[powerscol]

Not sure I agree with the last statement as I had a jelled tank on my CT 235 (felt like jello) and I added a bunch (almost 1 QT) of PS 911 (orange bottle) I stirred as much as I could with a long paint stick and in a few minutes everything dissolved and the temps did not rise. Now un-jelling the fuel lines was a pain. I did have a block heater and plugged it in, but I had to pull the fuel filter, fill it with 911 and use the boss units hair dryer on all the lines. Took about an hour to get her to fire, and what a rough start with a huge amount of white smoke. I was about to resort to the old trick of the BBQ pan with charcoal and a big tarp. My grandfather did that when I was a kid and almost burned his truck up.... oil pan was covered in grease from leaking for 20 years Just a lot of smoke to hear him tell, but Grandma had another story.:cool2:

I had summer fuel in it and temps went well below zero - what fun

 

[ritcheyvs]

Not sure I agree with the last statement as I had a jelled tank on my CT 235 (felt like jello) and I added a bunch (almost 1 QT) of PS 911 (orange bottle) ...

I was referring to the additives used in "winterized" Diesel (vs winter Diesel which is a DF2/DF1 blend) which are used at much lower concentrations. A quart of 911 probably contains a considerable quantity of distillates that are even lighter than kerosene. So even a quart of 911 in 5-8 gallons would make a big difference. In the old Mercedes mechanical IP Diesels, the book says it's OK to add up to 20% gasoline to combat fuel jelling. But I understand the newest common rail (and maybe Tier 4) engines would have a problem with gasoline and even kerosene additives. I haven't used 911 but the Diesel Purge I have used is thinner than water.

I think the message here is that all Diesel is not created equal. The suppliers adjust their product by the calendar and geographic location so most drivers don't have problems and hardly give it a second thought. But for atypical use, like tractors, boats, long-haul, etc., we need to think about what's in the tank.

 

[sd455dan]

BLUE SMOKE is an indication of oil being burnt. The oil can enter the combustion chamber for several reasons.

Worn valve guides or seals

Wear in power assemblies (ie cylinders, piston rings, ring grooves)

Cylinder glaze

Piston ring sticking

Incorrect grade of oil (eg oil too thin, and migrating past the rings)

Fuel dilution in the oil (oil thinned out with diesel)

At cold start, blue smoke is often evident, and can reflect reduced oil control, due to fouling deposits around piston rings or cylinder glaze (which is actually carbon deposited in the machined cylinder crosshatching.

Disagree- in this case it is more likely un burned diesel and is made more apparent by the miss in time with the puff of smoke, agree with others- either there is a small amount of diesel from a leaky injector present at cold start up or one cylinders glow plug is weak or non functioning leading to the cylinder not building enough heat to fire for a short time on cold start up.
if this was an oil control problem it would also smoke at a summer temp start up- it does not...
Unburned diesel for whatever reason can re sult in a slightly blue exhaust color, but does Not smell like burned engine oil it does smell like partially burned diesel. jmo