Egon
Epic Contributor
Is this the fellar you are talking about?
[video]http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2012/08/where_is_john_galt.html[/video]
Solar power & Wind Power for residental use
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Is this the fellar you are talking about?
[video]http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2012/08/where_is_john_galt.html[/video]
Egon
Epic Contributor
Okay,now I get what surplus power is. It is generated power in excess of what is needed, right. And you say the fixed generating stations are not flexible, right. Solar power should be off during the night, right? Wind power can be turned off turbine by turbine as required, right? Turbines do not have to be "Hot" when shut down, right? Turbines don't have tubes that don't like temperature changes, right? Power generating locations spread over the entire grid should reduce transmission problems, right? They may even be able to transmit power longer distances due to the spread, right?
The perceeding is all about the physics of the system operation, right? The Mechanical Systems do work, right? The European Systems are supplying power, right? If they supply power they must work, right?
Now for Economics. The Grid includes many individual owners, right? Each Owner wants to maximize their profit be it for transportation or generation, right? So all the babble of cost is not about economical distribution of power but rather profits, right?
By by the way, each owner should be allowed a profit, right.
I might also also add that my education is limited. When Eddy Currents are mentioned a canoe and paddle on a nice stream comes to mind. Transient Gauss Flux reminds me of some bad food producing excess gas!
buickanddeere
Super Member
The wind turbine operators are now being paid to not generate power. When base load generation combined with hydraulic and non dis-patachable power exceeds utility grid demand. Still leaves the rate payer stuck paying 13.5 cents per kw hr for power not being produced. Paying 39.5 to 80.2 cents per Kw hr for solar not being produced.
In fact power was negative rates from midnight until after 6:00AM this morning for nuclear and OPG hydroelectric. IESO Home
Some natural gas plants are guarantied 16.5 cents per Kw hr to make a profit anytime they choice to operate, including when there is already a surplus. Their contract says so as they are co-generation plants that also provide process heat for industry.
Hydro electric dams with native Indian contracts generate anytime they have enough water to operate the turbines and they receive a fixed guarantied price power Kw hr, not market wholesale rate. This surplus power now requires Hydro One to pay Michigan and NY to take this power after Hydro One was forced to purchase the hydro electric power at subsidized rates.
Europe is now also burdened with run away electrical rates required to subsidized wind and solar. Spain is in severe financial difficulty. Norway and Denmark etc were able to subsidize green power with exports of dirty oil for a while until the price of crude dropped. Germany is holding their own via burning record amounts of coal and selling power to Norway & Denmark etc when it's dark and the wind is still.
When there is a surplus on sunny windy weekends and during spring/fall. Germany receives power cheap , free or is paid to take Norway & Denmark power. Norway, Denmark are now stuck paying subsidized rates to wind and solar even though the wholesale power is surplused to Germany.
The green industry is not sustainable without subsidizes. Subsidizes last only as long as somebody can or somebody will pay the elevated cost.
Power usage is concentrated in urban areas. Wind and solar production are located away from Urban areas. Urbanites will vote out politicians who build gas turbines and wind turbines in those voters back yards. Hence the multi Billion $$$ natural gas plant cancellation penalty and ongoing scandal in Oakville by the Ontario Liberals just before the election.
If you look at the electoral map and the location of wind turbines. You will not find wind turbines in Liberal ridings, just NDP and Conservative ridings .
Wind and solar generation connected to networks that were sized and designed for distribution has problems with erratic, unpredictable voltage, current and frequency disturbances that trip protective equipment relays. Now customers are in the dark and spinning reserve once again has to pickup the load.The duplicate electrical systems to carry wind and solar on it's own dedicated networks to main switch yards is costly to install.
While wind and solar are better than nothing where there is nothing. or in Hawaii and 3rd world countries where there the distribution grid does not have mixed generation with base load and load following hydro electric/fossil.
Where generation is only rows of diesel electric generators burning imported oil. Solar in particular is welcome when it supplies what it can, when it can.
MossRoad
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Ken
Veteran Member
Egon Thanks for the link should be read by everyone that thinks.
Also the John Galt engine has ran for 60 years on less than a drop of ink. Edison thought dc power was the way to go except unable to control the generators so it caused large changes in voltage.
Those advancing ac were brow beat to even think different except it worked as designed.
Telsa liked to think power could be transmitted to large areas like todays tv
another generation of people will start to agree Nuclear power still has the best idea.
long lasting between shutdowns and should be cheap except the gov. requires a observer with clipboard writing down every scratch the employee makes.
ken
MossRoad
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The fact of the matter is the power generation business (that's what it is as they make a profit) is changing. New players are coming into effect and the old players need to adapt or get left behind. Yeah, it sucks for them that they invested billions in infrastructure, and now have to let others use it. The same thing happened to the phone company. Who paid for all those telephone poles that the cable company gets to hang their wires on, and then sell voice over data? That's the way the cookie crumbles.
k0ua
Epic Contributor
Yes, several things like that: Interconnect phone companies, CLEC phone companies etc. We all wanted the large phone companies to have their guts stomped out, starting in the 1980's with judge Greens rulings. Well guess what, it worked. Large phone companies now have their guts stomped out. The phone business is a dead or dying thing. Ain't we all content?
Egon
Epic Contributor
You forgot that hydro power stations can bypass their turbines at will, too.
Yea, forgot about them. Niagra pumps water up River.
MossRoad
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I never liked the phone company. I still don't. But they shouldn't have had to let other companies use their infrastructure to compete them out of business.
I toss that one back and forth once in a while. One the one hand, my land line rarely fails. Maybe twice in 20 years. Outstanding reliability. But when it goes down, its down for days. On the other hand, my cell phone loses service in the house several times per week. None ever in the basement. I get internet from the phone company. Its great. But again, if it goes down, its down for days. I have never had cable at this house and don't want it. But truth be told, they provide better internet than the phone company.
Which brings me around to not using either the phone company or cable. The cell phone, for less monthly cost than the land line or cable, does SO MUCH MORE!!! hahahahaa It works in 90% of the places I need it to work, all over the country. Its always on me. It has internet. I get better response out of friends and family with text than playing phone tag with voice messages. Unlimited voice, data, text and long distance for $30 a month. Land line is over $40. So, I'd say I like my cell better.
I toss that one back and forth once in a while. One the one hand, my land line rarely fails. Maybe twice in 20 years. Outstanding reliability. But when it goes down, its down for days. On the other hand, my cell phone loses service in the house several times per week. None ever in the basement. I get internet from the phone company. Its great. But again, if it goes down, its down for days. I have never had cable at this house and don't want it. But truth be told, they provide better internet than the phone company.
Which brings me around to not using either the phone company or cable. The cell phone, for less monthly cost than the land line or cable, does SO MUCH MORE!!! hahahahaa It works in 90% of the places I need it to work, all over the country. Its always on me. It has internet. I get better response out of friends and family with text than playing phone tag with voice messages. Unlimited voice, data, text and long distance for $30 a month. Land line is over $40. So, I'd say I like my cell better.
MossRoad
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That's something to see. We were there last summer again. Too commercialized now, but still something everyone should see at least once in their life. :thumbsup:
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