Wireless routers cascaded, Ethernet in / Wifi out

[Soundguy]

Running Android Netgear WiFi Analytics on my phone, signal strength from the existing repeater drops off as I get farther out from the repeater. Likewise Ookla Speedtest, down to under 1 Mbps. By the time I get behind the cabin, outdoors, signal is low to none.

I would like a fresh signal from a router originating inside the back wall of the cabin, to serve there and to radiate out into my equipment storage area back there and the orchard beyond.

Wired to that location would be best.

 

[Soundguy]

can't change the channel the repeater uses, unless its a dual band repeater, but op can do what he wants

You say that like dual band repeaters are rare or scarce or something.

 

[California]

Wired to that location would be best.

Agreed. I'm planning to make a phantom wire with my Ethernet Over Powerline sender/receiver kit, then at the far end feed signal into an ordinary router to make use of its Wifi radio transmitter.

I want to avoid, if I can, placing overhead or buried Cat5 across the driveway between the buildings. Here's an old photo showing the back window where I have the N-300 repeater. After upgrading my ISP service above 1.5 Mbps, service via the repeater to the cabin didn't improve proportionally.

The cabin is on the left behind the Redwoods in the photo.

 

[MossRoad]

Running Android Netgear WiFi Analytics on my phone, signal strength from the existing repeater drops off as I get farther out from the repeater. Likewise Ookla Speedtest, down to under 1 Mbps. By the time I get behind the cabin, outdoors, signal is low to none.

I would like a fresh signal from a router originating inside the back wall of the cabin, to serve there and to radiate out into my equipment storage area back there and the orchard beyond.

Wow, that is poor strength. Thanks for the explanation.

 

[MossRoad]

Nice composter!

 

[California]

Thanks!

 

[California]

Ok, progress!

After a few more gray hairs I finally figured out that 'cascaded routers' configuration is only needed when the remote router receives signal via wifi.

In contrast I'm using (virtual) Ethernet cable from the principal router out to the remote router. I set up the remote router with fixed IP, DHCP off, channel left at Automatic, normal login security. No cascading features needed.

I now have a remote router in service working properly. Speedtest on my phone shows wifi signal at this remote router at the same speed as a desktop pc at the same remote location. Each of these remote units, the router and the desktop, has its own incoming signal from its own Ethernet over Powerline receiver.

I attached to one of the router's Ethernet ports an old Laserjet 1300 containing a Jetdirect Ethernet interface card, and at another port an Ethernet-to-USB box driving a color laser printer. The desktop pc prints properly through the network to these.

The HP Jetdirect (J6039C) card I have in the Laserjet is the cheapest way to input Ethernet to it. I went on Ebay and found another for the ranch Laserjet 1300, actually two cards for $5.50 including shipping.


Now that I understand the principles involved it will be easy to expand this.


Thanks to everyone for the advice and encouragement. roposetoast:

 

[MossRoad]

HP Jetdirect (J6039C) card...

Man you do like the old stuff! :laughing: We had many of those around our building and remote offices. They were workhorses. The printers would die, but we'd keep those cards. They were like gold to us. Once you set it with an IP address and name, you'd just keep that card at that particular office and swap them into the replacement printers. It was cheaper for us to run a good printer out to the office, swap the card, and bring the dead printer back to the home office where we could work on it in the lab.

Something else to consider, if your remote PCs seem to have network issues, try changing the Speed and Duplex settings from Auto to some locked setting, like 100 no duplex or 10 no duplex. It resolves a lot of issues where the network speed varies for various reasons. Once we upper our network to GB at the desktop, we had many older devices that went nuts. Taking them off Auto and hard coding them to fixed network speeds resolved 99% of the issues.

 

[California]

HP Jetdirect (J6039C) card... Man you do like the old stuff! :laughing:

You would have howled at what I was running at home and ranch up through 2011. The very definition of 'Old School'.

Surely you recognize the HP Laserjet IIp and IIIp. At work I bought one when they were introduced in 1989, for an investigator who needed privacy. Around 1996 I found one in a thrift store for $20, all it needed was a little spring to elevate the feed blade and feed the next sheet. $5 mailorder for the spring and I had a better laser printer than many offices. Over the years I must have had 20 or so IIp's and IIIp's all bought for near nothing. I had them in service for me, for my kids college dorms, and as as gifts for friends. Scanner motor died, no problem, I have several more in the parts box. A couple of years ago there were no longer decent cartridges for these on Ebay and I finally ran out of serviceable used rollers, separator pads etc, so I replaced these with used 2003 Laserjet 1300's. Much faster, otherwise the same thing. I have a modern color laser printer (Samsung) but the elderly Laserjets have always been the cheap-to-run workhorses doing 95% of the printing.

I'm retired so staying one generation behind is cheap and serves me fine. I take the approach that I can play with more toys when I don't pay much for them, latest example is the used routers re-configured as remote Access Points that I described above. Two more examples are in my sig photo, below.

 

[California]

Something else to consider, if your remote PCs seem to have network issues, try changing the Speed and Duplex settings from Auto to some locked setting, like 100 no duplex or 10 no duplex. It resolves a lot of issues where the network speed varies for various reasons. Once we upper our network to GB at the desktop, we had many older devices that went nuts. Taking them off Auto and hard coding them to fixed network speeds resolved 99% of the issues.

Thanks for the tip, I wouldn't have thought of that.

These '500 AV' EoP sets have 100Mbps Ethernet cable ports. This puts a hard limit on how fast data is accepted into the link.

I don't see why they claim 'Up to 500 Mbps over existing electrical lines'.

I don't expect a problem of excess speed.

 

[Winmac]

I'd say it's just marketing, after all the higher number you attract to a product automatically makes it better.
If the down stream device has n300 wifi + 2x 100 ethernet = 500, at least that how I understand how they come up with the number.

 

[California]

I'd say it's just marketing, after all the higher number you attract to a product automatically makes it better.
If the down stream device has n300 wifi + 2x 100 ethernet = 500, at least that how I understand how they come up with the number.

... but that's what they claim comes out the far end of the 'pipe'. It must be magic to get that out the far end when the input end uses 100 Mbps electronic circuits.

The good news is my desktop pc at the far end of a PoE link indicates 100Mbps connect speed through this 70 year old house wiring. So the technology seems solid.

 

[LittleBill21]

... but that's what they claim comes out the far end of the 'pipe'. It must be magic to get that out the far end when the input end uses 100 Mbps electronic circuits.

The good news is my desktop pc at the far end of a PoE link indicates 100Mbps connect speed through this 70 year old house wiring. So the technology seems solid.

your desktop has no idea what speed your powerline link is, the speed its reporting is its connection from the desktop to the poe pluged into the wall.

you need to run a software utility package, which will find the Powerline links, that software will indicate what speed the Poweline actually is


also POE is the wrong term, that stands for Power over Ethernet, which is not what your running here

 

[Winmac]

Marketing is all about the magic, almost burst out laughing when a sales guy told me that a n600 router had a more powerful signal than n300.

I have a question about EOP I've been unable to find the answer to, my house and garage have separate services but are fed from the same transformer. I realize that there are two 120v feeds and they need to be on the same one to communicate provided the distance is with in range,Will EOP work in this senecio?

 

[California]

your desktop has no idea what speed your powerline link is, the speed its reporting is its connection from the desktop to the poe pluged into the wall.

you need to run a software utility package, which will find the Powerline links, that software will indicate what speed the Poweline actually is


also POE is the wrong term, that stands for Power over Ethernet, which is not what your running here

Oops. EoP. I've corrected myself several times in this thread before posting. That one I missed. I see you like "poe pluged into the wall" too.

It makes sense that the reported speed is merely the connection speed at the pc/receiver interface, not the transmitted speed.

Any suggestions for a EoP speed diagnostic?

(Home in town). Speedtest on my phone a foot from the FTTN router: 27 ms ping, 21.62 Mbps download.
Speedtest on my desktop at the far end of the house via wired EoP link: 28 ms ping, 22.96 Mbps download.

Conclusion: this EoP link is providing output @ 100% of the speed fed into it.

 

[California]

I have a question about EOP I've been unable to find the answer to, my house and garage have separate services but are fed from the same transformer. I realize that there are two 120v feeds and they need to be on the same one to communicate provided the distance is with in range,Will EOP work in this senecio?

I think its worth trying if the devices are returnable.

I initially set up mine via the web interface and didn't realize it wasn't secure. When I started it up and looked to see what was accessible I saw several other EoP systems nearby, similar to how you see your neigbors' Wireless routers. In addition to me I see only three neighbors served from the transformer behind my house so I wondered if I saw neighbors on the next transformer too. That doesn't seem likely but there were sure a lot of routers that came up. Maybe some cable routers have EoP built in?

Do the overhead powerlines ever have cables at 240v down to the next pole and tied to the next transformer, in contrast to each transformer isolated? Seems to me it might be wired that way when a drop is needed from mid-span between poles. Anybody know?

Your garage outlet will be on a single 120v side of the 240 volts served. You might have to try various outlets in the house to find one on the same side as the garage.

So I think its worth experimenting assuming the devices are returnable. YMMV.

 

[Winmac]

If you can see your neighbours then it should work for my application, I do know that the signal will not pass thru a transformer.

 

[Soundguy]

How do you like those eop? What speeds will they do?

At work we have HDMI over ethernet

 

[California]

How do you like those eop? What speeds will they do?

My origin and destination are on different legs coming off of the electric panel, one leg installed 1943 and the other 1988 - so it isn't an ideal clean setup.

Actual measured results:

(Home in town). Speedtest on my phone at the origin, wifi a foot from the FTTN router: 27 ms ping, 21.62 Mbps download.
Speedtest on my desktop 40 ft away at the far end of the house through wired EoP link: 28 ms ping, 22.96 Mbps download.

Conclusion: this EoP link is providing output @ 100% of the speed fed into it.

I don't have any better data but with speed out = speed in, I'm happy.

I suspect theoretical maximum for these would be 100 Mbps less overhead so maybe 90 ? Mbps practical maximum over clean powerlines.

They sell gigabit versions which should be faster.

 

[California]

my house and garage have separate services but are fed from the same transformer. ...Will EOP work in this senecio?

One more thought: By all means get the 4220 kit that I linked on post#1 as your first sender/receiver pair. Its receiver includes a Wifi transmitter in addition to the Ethernet cable ports.