Generator question (household wiring to be more accurate)

[aczlan]

Will a 200 amp. breaker fit the RC816F200C meter ???

No, its limited to 100 amps per breaker.
It has feed through lugs on it, so the feed for the house subpanel goes onto the bottom of the buss bars and its on anytime the main breaker is on.
I can't find a picture of the inside of that panel, but here is a picture of a similar panel from Siemens showing the feed through lugs (aluminum) bolted to the bottom of the copper bus bars:

Source: Siemens MC0816B1200CT 8 Space, 16 Circuit, 200-Amp Main Breaker Meter Combination With A Ring Type Cover - Circuit Breaker Panels - Amazon.com

Aaron Z

 

[dadster4]

Howdy,
example. Power is out for the whole area. You have this setup. Fire department responds to a fire, they find your main panel and meter. They pull the meter thinking they are good to go. ZZZzzzaaapppp. You do not have a google map showing the location of where the power is coming from.

If the meter is pulled (in an emergency situation), the service feed is completely disconnected from ANY wiring downstream of the meter, it doesn't matter what devices are installed.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

EVERY time the power goes out here, and I'm running a generator, the first thing the line men do when they hear my generator running is, walk down my drive and pull my meter...

Anymore, when I hook up my generator, i've been pulling my own meter, the line men see that and walk away, coming back later, to put it back on when the power is restored...

SR

 

[buckeyefarmer]

I've only seen kirk keys used on large air frame switchgear substations, and or high voltage switches where you have primary / secondary select, where a transfer switch won't work or it would be overly expensive in money, time and space to make it work.
The whole purpose of kirk keys is to ensure you open / close breakers in the proper sequence, so that you can't make the dumb mistake. In other words, they are there to force the safety of the system.
Don't know if they make them for residential equipment. But if they did, you would put one on your generator breaker, and one on your main breaker. The generator breaker would normally be locked open, without a captive key. without the key, you can not close the generator breaker. The main breaker would be closed, with the kirk key captive in that position but not locked closed, the breaker is free to be opened.
In this situation, the only way to close the generator breaker, is to open the main breaker, lock the main breaker open with the kirk key, which then allows the key to be released from the lock. You now move the key to the generator breaker, unlock the kirk key, which now captures the key, and you manually can close the generator breaker. In this state, you have the generator breaker closed, they key is captured and can not be released until you open the generator breaker. The main breaker is locked open, with no key to allow you to close it. In no way does the kirk key system prevent a breaker from opening on overcurrent. It only controls when you can manually open/close a breaker.

This is a forced break before make situation, to guarantee you don't screw it up and backfeed the main with your generator.

In my past usage, we did the opposite, we would force a make before break, to ensure you didn't accidently open the load. This was done on double ended substations with a tie breaker, with synced sources.

For the homeowner, a transfer switch is the way to do it. I have never backfed my panel from a generator, but I would be comfortable doing it. I don't recommend it to anyone. Some power companies now offer a connector at the meter to hook up a generator, that essentially is a transfer switch. You can buy make before break transfer switches, but they need to have the equipment to sync to the source before it will close. Way too expensive for the average homeowner.

Hopefully this clears up some of the misunderstandings of how kirk keys work, and that they are there for safety.

 

[buickanddeere]

If the meter is pulled (in an emergency situation), the service feed is completely disconnected from ANY wiring downstream of the meter, it doesn't matter what devices are installed.

When on generator ?

 

[Gator6x4]

I have not read every post, so if someone else has mentioned this disregard. The weak link in a generator supplied power source is the size of the wire between the generator and the service panel. I personally if going to wire a 20 kW generator in for whole house would place the generator as close to the house meter, as possible and use a 200 amp manual disconnect. # 1 wire will carry 150 amps for short distances. I would use this type wire from the generator to the disconnect. Wire Capacity Chart

A lot of people have acute acid reflux when they start pricing the per foot cost of # 1 copper for the run from the generator to the service disconnect or the 3/0 (200 amp) or 4/0 (230 amp) copper service wire which will be needed to go from the service disconnect to the meter or from the service disconnect to the main service panel.

 

[Gator6x4]

EVERY time the power goes out here, and I'm running a generator, the first thing the line men do when they hear my generator running is, walk down my drive and pull my meter...

Anymore, when I hook up my generator, i've been pulling my own meter, the line men see that and walk away, coming back later, to put it back on when the power is restored...

SR

What happens when the linemen are working two miles away and can't hear your generator, or know to come by and replace your meter?

 

[SPYDERLK]

I saw a comment in another thread regarding a 100 amp service panel and adding some 220V items....

Got me wondering.

My main panel is 200A.

I have (if I recall correctly) an 8-3 wire going .... let's call it 40 feet to a second panel in the garage.

On this second panel, I have a couple 20 amp circuits going to the downstairs HT setup. The rest of it will be used for some garage lights and circuits.

This second panel is on a 50A breaker in the main box.

Brings me to a generator question. We needed one a year ago and the brother in law happened to have a 10KW diesel unit he could bring over. We were able to hobble along for the week and keep things working as long as we rotated them.

If I were to buy a generator, I'm wanting a larger one than the 10Kw because I'd like to have the ability to keep the well pump on as well as the water heater!

So, if I were to get (what size?) a 20-30 Kw generator.... what I'd like to do is take another run of that wire (which again, I believe to be 8-3 or, was it 8-2 with ground....I get that third wire confuse sometimes!)

Anyways, what I envision is running an outlet to the outside of house. Being able to then, plug the generator into that outlet to it feed the second panel and then let that panel feed the primary panel.

Ultimately, my question is, with a 50 amp breaker serving the second panel, what might that restrict me to with regard to a generator?

(I'm aware that need some kind of control panel to prevent back-feeding to the electric company, that is independent of what size generator might be too big for that 50 amp circuit)

While I agree that you should consult an electrician, you are installing an awfully huge generator just to run the water heater. I run my 220 volt well pump off a 4000 watt continuous / 5000 watt surge generator. Water heaters have two elements and you can temporarily turn off one to ease the load on the generator. You will still have hot water but the recovery will be slower.

Having a huge generator is not only expensive to buy, but expensive to run, especially if fuel is in short supply.

There are also devices that will shed loads selectively so, for example, the water heater would be disconnected when ever the pump is running.

electric water heater only uses 4500 watts, and only 1 element is on at a time, what size is your well pump? i run my electric water heater and well pump off a HF 7000watt generator, it grunts but does it fine

Thank you for posting.

,,,,,Water heaters do not run both elements at the same time. 10 kW should easily run a water heater and a well pump ... unless its a big pump. Our pump starts easily on 4kW.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

What happens when the linemen are working two miles away and can't hear your generator, or know to come by and replace your meter?

What do you mean what happens??

If they don't put it back on, I certainly know how to...

SR

 

[LeedsCase]

I concur on getting an electrician. The NEC exists to prevent people from getting electrocuted or resulting in a burned down house.
Getting an electrician will ensure that it is a safe installation.
Backfeeding off a subpanel is prohibited by the NEC. The service disconnect is called that because it disconnects the service from the electrical supply. If you have a backfeed, then you could kill the mains, and not be safe.
I'd strongly recommend installing a cutover relay system and feed into the main disconnect. When you have to run the generator, you can isolate the devices you don't want to run using the supply breakers in the panel. That way everything is properly sized, and you have a safe installation, that won't result in someone getting injured later.