Diesel Generator

[lostcreekranch]

yes I have my own transformer, IDK how to tell that is there something that identifies it.

It will be clearly marked. Can you take pictures of it?

 

[BigCountry1689]

No furnace (Florida :laughing yes to the hot water heater it is a GE hybrid. Yes using it one at a time is fine for washers dryers and such but well pump, hot water heater and A/C come on as needed.

 

[BigCountry1689]

It will be clearly marked. Can you take pictures of it?

I can look at it tomorrow.

 

[justinramani]

My thinking... Propane standby generator liquid cooled rough numbers about $6400 plus install of tank, remember my county code says it has to be underground and to get the tank in any sort of substantial size that code would apply (250Gal Plus) so an additional $1200 or $45/Month (Rental) for the tank. Estimate from gas company was $1650 for install from gas company to run LP for appliances, plus still the electrician which adds another $950 because it is my brother in law doing the install. And in case you might suggest just putting in tanks myself my county has found away around that sort of thing. They do this little thing where the property appraiser sub contracts a home inspector once every 2 years to come out and walk your property. If you think I am kidding I am not so they walk and say oh that's new since 2 year's ago we need more $$ oh and that's against code we will need to let the building department know and on and on. So I have to do it right the first time to avoid a lot of cost later. So propane becomes a costly endeavor. Now I could go with the Home depot special but what is my longevity with an air cooled motor in a plastic enclosure. And I will still be $5000 into that. So it becomes a balancing of money and reason to me.

Propane Generator- $10,200 (22,000KW Liquid Cooled, ATS 200AMP)

Diesel Generator-

36KW Turbo, with 125Gal Tank, 200amp ATS, Level 2 enclosure, for $10,155 Plus-Install

24KW NON-turbo, 125Gal Tank, 200amp ATS, Level 2 enclosure, for $9,015 (1yr parts only) Plus Install


Wife WILL NOT budge on whole house I have tried. If it were me it would be a floor fan and a TV with a DVD player and I am golden, this would be a $700 endeavor.

You are not taking into consideration other benefits of installing a propane tank - want a heater in the garage? Just run a line. Want to upgrade to a tankless Water Heater - run a line. Want to stop getting your 20 pounder re-filled for the BBQ - run a line. Want a gas stove instead of electric - run a line.

 

[justinramani]

I am not sure what wet stacking is???

But there is a Kubota 11,000KW with a 13,500KW surge that I really like, it is a portable unit that would simplify install greatly. But what will it run?? Like I said wife wants whole house as normal.

I am still researching I haven't pulled my card out yet.

Wet stacking is a term that originally described a diesel engine dripping a thick, dark substance from its exhaust pipes or, as theyæ±*e often called, 都tacks. The dripping exhaust stacks were called 努et stacks, and the engine was said to be 努et stacking. The condition is caused by operating the engine at light load for extended periods, sending unburned fuel and soot into the exhaust system. Today, the term refers to an engine that isn稚 completely burning all the fuel thatç—´ delivered to its cylinders. Over a prolonged period, this condition can seriously degrade engine performance.

Most standby generators for facilities have a diesel engine as the prime mover. Many of these generators are routinely tested at no load or at light loads, for a variety of reasons. Building operators are reluctant to interrupt critical loads for transfer to generator and back to utility. Data center operators often refrain from switching uninterruptible power supplies (UPS) to emergency power during tests to avoid affecting battery warranties with excessive transfers. Generator sets may have been oversized in anticipation of load growth that didn稚 materialize. Whatever the reason, diesel generators that aren稚 regularly exercised at a significant fraction of their nameplate capacities are at risk for wet stacking.

 

[BigCountry1689]

Wet stacking is a term that originally described a diesel engine dripping a thick, dark substance from its exhaust pipes or, as theyæ±*e often called, 都tacks. The dripping exhaust stacks were called 努et stacks, and the engine was said to be 努et stacking. The condition is caused by operating the engine at light load for extended periods, sending unburned fuel and soot into the exhaust system. Today, the term refers to an engine that isn稚 completely burning all the fuel thatç—´ delivered to its cylinders. Over a prolonged period, this condition can seriously degrade engine performance.

Most standby generators for facilities have a diesel engine as the prime mover. Many of these generators are routinely tested at no load or at light loads, for a variety of reasons. Building operators are reluctant to interrupt critical loads for transfer to generator and back to utility. Data center operators often refrain from switching uninterruptible power supplies (UPS) to emergency power during tests to avoid affecting battery warranties with excessive transfers. Generator sets may have been oversized in anticipation of load growth that didn稚 materialize. Whatever the reason, diesel generators that aren稚 regularly exercised at a significant fraction of their nameplate capacities are at risk for wet stacking.

Thank you, that provides some clarity. So with that would a 20KW with a load shedding controller be more reasonable to avoid this condition( A/C has a 16,500watt start up then settles to about 4000watts). Most of the generators have about a 15% surge so I am thinking if I managed the appliances accordingly would allow a lower rating and still run everything. As long as she has the main things I think I can get by. But I know the wife will not go without A/C or clean cloths or hot water, no matter what. All those days living in a camper because the house was destroyed cured her of that.

I just don't know about propane, I live very rural down a road that floods in large areas and becomes impassable and I think that getting the propane truck there in one of those storms will be a nightmare. As apposed to loading the diesel tank on the tractor and going to get diesel at the store.

 

[justinramani]

Thank you, that provides some clarity. So with that would a 20KW with a load shedding controller be more reasonable to avoid this condition( A/C has a 16,500watt start up then settles to about 4000watts). Most of the generators have about a 15% surge so I am thinking if I managed the appliances accordingly would allow a lower rating and still run everything. As long as she has the main things I think I can get by. But I know the wife will not go without A/C or clean cloths or hot water, no matter what. All those days living in a camper because the house was destroyed cured her of that.

I just don't know about propane, I live very rural down a road that floods in large areas and becomes impassable and I think that getting the propane truck there in one of those storms will be a nightmare. As apposed to loading the diesel tank on the tractor and going to get diesel at the store.

I think that only your electrician can tell you what will work. The AC and water heater are going to surge every time they cycle on. You will likely need the larger unit if you plan to run your entire house uninterrupted. You may just need someone to come out twice a year and run a load bank on your generator. They can use the bank to simulate a full load for an extended period of time. Just know that $10k won't be the end of it. Your generator will need routine maintenance. I wouldn't be surprised if routine maintenance calls ran between $300 - $500 a pop.

 

[westcliffe01]

So here is my take, from a totally different perspective:

I figure, if the power is out, the things that absolutely have to work are:
1) Well pump (230V single phase) this is so that the toilets will flush and water will work for other things
2)AC in summer
3)Some lights at night so we can see what we are doing
4)Basic kitchen appliances (kettle, toaster, microwave, refrigerator, freezer)
5)Water heater - no-one wants a cold shower

Minor stuff like internet service, which may provide phone service, TV etc usually are no big deal.

When I bought the house, the previous owner had high wattage incandescent bulbs everywhere. Like 1.6kW in the kitchen and living room alone. If you ran them for an hour in the summer, the AC would kick on because of the heat load. So I have systematically eliminated all the lighting energy hogs. For lights where the starting delay and slow brightening of the CFLs was not acceptable, I went LED. So now I need less than 200W for all of the same lights, and they are actually brighter than before...

To run my house, I use a gas powered Robin Subaru generator that I believe I paid $700 for. 3.5kW, 115 - 0 115, so it will run the well pump and AC.

I think you really need to take a look at your breaker panel on a day your wife is at the store and figure out what loads you can turn off without really affecting life in a serious way. I would be really surprised if you need more than 10kW. if you exceed that, there is flat out a lot of waste going on at your place that you might want to look into.

One of the best places on the east coast is Diesel Generators for Home Power or Off-Grid Electricity

This listing of theirs
Kubota 9,875 Watt Diesel Generator
is for a 9.875kW Kubota based generator. That is 3x what I have available. 1800rpm. Their base price is $5600. Careful about how many options you add, you can double the price. If you have a tractor and can move a 55gal drum, that is how I would manage the fuel, and you can use the same container to fuel your other vehicles. No need to spend $1500 on an integral tank. The genset would run a very long time on 55gal. 3/4 load is 0.6 gal/hr - 14.4 gal/day or 91hrs on 55 gal at 3/4 load. Honestly, it is hard to see how you could even manage 3/4 load unless you have 3 split AC's cooling the place year round...

 

[Garycw]

I explained to wife in a emergency, you go into emergency usage, not life as usual. That may be choosing running fridge & freezer over clothes dryer, cooking on grill etc. I would already be in solar hot water w/ back up if in fla full time. If your able to put a pool in, should be able to bury a 500 gal tank. Another nice thing about propane is it doesn't take power to fill tanks, or to even pick up 20-30 gal tanks when stations aren't pumping because of pwr outage. Are you allowed to have above ground diesel tanks? If near waterway there could be EPA and other local codes to consider.

 

[westcliffe01]

I have not been too clear on loads, but there was mention of a 2.5 ton AC.

With reference to this website Air conditioning and heat pump loads on a generator
a 3 ton ac would be a 9kw starting load and a 3kw running load. The simplest way to handle that would be to start the generator and then the first load that you apply from the house after switching over the transfer switch would be the AC. Then I would adjust the thermostat in such a way to make the AC run continuous, then you have a constant 3kw load which will be good for a 10kw generator.

Then from that base load the generator would have no problem handling any other load you should need for the house.

There is no logical rational for trying to run everything in the house simultaneously.

I think the mere fact that your wife would have water, flushing toilets, AC to cool off and lights and without having to listen to a screaming 3600rpm gas generator, she would quickly concede that life is good and you were wise not to waste money on a ridiculous size generator.

For future benefit, next time something in your AC needs replacing, get a variable speed DC compressor. It will save you money and does not have the ridiculous starting load, so now your 10kw generator would be too big again....