Diesel Generator

[pmsmechanic]

The OP stated earlier that anything beyond changing a light bulb is beyond him. How is he going to feel comfortable building an at home load bank????

You're right but I'm pretty sure the op isn't going to be the only one reading this forum.

 

[RalphVa]

The whole house generator people plus another outfit both said we needed 30-40 kw diesel units. I had lots of experience running our 4.4 kw gas generator on much of the house circuits and applied that knowhow. Ended up with a 12.5 kw Isuzu generator from Central Maine Diesel and a Gentron 200 amp panel with 6 circuits that are only allowed on if there is room. So far, it has worked great. My wife even ran the clothes drier during one outage. One of our 2 water heaters is run off the generator as is 2 heat pumps. There's some circuitry that turns off the emergency heat on the upstairs heat pump when the generator is on. Diesel consumption these last 3 years has been 0.2 gph. I keep the diesel treated and refreshed by taking from the 60 gallon tank for my tractor.

I highly recommend the Isuzu unit. It starts with no diesel clatter and never smokes. Can't beat the fuel consumption. So far, at around 40 hours, the oil is still crystal clear, too.

Ralph

 

[Larry Caldwell]

I am not sure what wet stacking is???

But there is a Kubota 11,000KW with a 13,500KW surge that I really like, it is a portable unit that would simplify install greatly. But what will it run?? Like I said wife wants whole house as normal.

I am still researching I haven't pulled my card out yet.

Wet stacking happens when a diesel is run far below its design capacity. Fuel in a cold engine does not combust completely. Generally a diesel should run above 30% of its design capacity, or you should monitor exhaust temperature to make sure all the fuel is being burned.

Your AC will probably pull about an 8 kw starting surge, after which it will drop to about 2.5 kw run. It is unlikely you will ever have every kitchen appliance plus every range burner, the oven, the clothes dryer and every light in the house running at once. The typical base load for an all electric house is about 7 or 8 kw, and 4 kw of that is the water heater.

From what you describe, your system will be much more efficient and reliable if you size it at 16 kw to 20 kw. Bigger is not always better.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

KevinWak: Thank you for you suggestions, after reading here and talking to the wife I have decided that I am going with either a 18k or 20k unit (Depending if the dealer can work a deal on price) I think this should suit our needs and cover my usage of the engine to about 50 - 60% to prevent wet stacking.

#2 - If running the generator from the shop becomes the option will I be back into a situation where I need to go up again to compensate for the run. I have read that the farther the run the more drop in power.

Better choice on the size. It should be nicely adequate for you. I doubt I would spend the money for a load shedding transfer switch. I would just use a whole house transfer switch and turn the breakers off manually if load managing became necessary. If your wife is home alone, she might not want to deal with that, though. At 18kw or 20 kw, I doubt you will ever have to deal with it.

If you are running from the shop, just install larger wires to handle the ampacity. At 75 or 100 amps, you will get the same voltage drop no matter what size your generator is.

 

[BigCountry1689]

Better choice on the size. It should be nicely adequate for you. I doubt I would spend the money for a load shedding transfer switch. I would just use a whole house transfer switch and turn the breakers off manually if load managing became necessary. If your wife is home alone, she might not want to deal with that, though. At 18kw or 20 kw, I doubt you will ever have to deal with it.

If you are running from the shop, just install larger wires to handle the ampacity. At 75 or 100 amps, you will get the same voltage drop no matter what size your generator is.

Thank you Larry.

So here is the final decision that we have made:

Isuzu generator : 21KW ( I'll explain ) (5yr./5000Hr. Warranty Engine, 2yr/2000hour Alternator) $7,699, Auto start controller $329, 100 gallon tank $349, ATS 200AMP $1200,Shipping $90.00 Total - $9667

Now I'll explain, after reading on here and talking to the wife I thought about the extra money required to by a unit from a known manufacturer with a substantial warranty and decided it was worth it. So I started researching units I liked, I really liked the Cummins but found out that there warranty had been reduced to 2yr/2000 hour with parts and labor only covering the first year so I moved on. Then I looked at others like Perkins and Mitsubishi but warranty and fuel consumption were not where I wanted. So I settled on the Isuzu mainly because I can go to NAPA to get parts If I needed them (Filters, Air, ETC...) and their warranty. I looked at 3 companies and I will elaborate on each: #1- Centralmainediesel.com - very nice people, unfortunately when you look at the prices then start talking shipping($529), crating, fluids, and battery it starts to become an expensive proposition. Next was Ebay - NO! pretty much sums that up, all importers who want nothing to do after sale. Nxt I found a company called PDG Generator or Power house generators- I settled on this company for the following reasons :

#1- They manufacture the alternator heads right in Valdosta Georgia with USA parts.

#2 - They provided the Isuzu engine with the warranty I wanted and their price was $7699 for an 18KW unit which was exactly what I wanted.

#3 - They have a 2yr/2000hr warranty on the alternator and the generator is rated at 110% for 1 hour and 150% for 2 minutes, this will more than cover my needs.

#4 - The unit comes with all fluids and battery.

#5 - Shipping was $90.00 to the house without lift gate (No need I have pallet forks.)

#6 - Finally I spoke to the distribution manager who was very knowledgeable and said exactly what you all said about required watts, I explained that I wanted the load sheading switch and he said " I tell you what to save you the hassle and extra money I'll just put a 21KW on your unit when we build it for FREE.":cool2: Cant get any better than that, So I am going with this unit as I think the more expensive unit divided over the life expectancy of 40,000 hours will be well worth it for me. I probably will not ever have to by another generator in my life.

I consulted with an electrician ( Not the first one ) and also the builder of my new shop and he says running it from the shop will be fine. So I will save the $1795 on a acoustic enclosure and $1100 on the slab and just mount it in the shop for between $900 and $1000 for the run to the panel. Only hiccup will bee that I have to remove a 8 ft. side walk on the side of the house for the conduit to run "Oh Well" I wanted a bigger patio anyways. I will be ordering the unit but install will be delayed because I am putting in a new shop and my tractor is down right this minute so I cant finish the prep work. I am just going to use the standard 200amp transfer switch and if I end up having to switch breakers to control load then I'll just get the load shedding device. I am going to buy the exterior exhaust kit and run the unit in the shop if it is too loud I just wont work in the shop. The biggest reason for this was I wanted to power the shop anyways so the line would of had to be run out there from the house, so why not just put it out there to begin with. I am back at the $10,000 mark but I think it is worth it. I also found out from my accountant that I can write it off under my S-Corp as a business expense because it is for the farm and is being mounted in the shop/barn. So I will be getting a small return on that investment next year.

thanks for all your help and I will post pictures when I get the unit installed and the shop completed.

 

[RalphVa]

Our average usage is somewhere around 2 kw. Just take your total for the year and divide it by 24 and 365.

I looked up the fuel usage chart for the Isuzu 12.5 kw. At the average usage, its usage was predicted to be 0.2 gph. That's exactly what it has run. So, I feel pretty confident in the average value. Can't dispute actual bills anyway.

Unless you have same very high usage, you will not go anywhere near loading up an 18kw or 20 kw unit.

Ralph

 

[bigdeano]

Does this dreaded wet stacking hurt anything? Doesn't seem like a little water and unburned fuel dribbling out the exhaust would be a big deal. My 10kw has run for several hours just running the tv with no ill effects that I can see. It does get up to temp though because it's not idling but turning 1500rpm.

 

[Industrial Toys]

Sounds like the OP has chosen some nice high quality equipment. Not that screaming (3600rpm) junk with the "G" name.

I too struggle with the wet stacking issue. You would be surprised how little power one might use at any given time. I recently bought a power monitoring system and it has been an eye opener. Plus, who wants to run an expensive genset, putting hours on, for nothing!

I run a 200 amp electrically heated house on a 7.5 KW Onan/Kubota. Heat with wood in an outage, but still have way too much power at any given moment. Sure, you need some reserve for the water pump. I manage my loads manually, but intend to automatically dump my electric heating loads on emergency transfer. Not a hard thing to do, by the way.

 

[LittleBill21]

did they happen to mention the THD of the generator head? or HZ regulation?

 

[grsthegreat]

My neighbor put his Genrac is his garage. When he had problems and the service guy came out, they refused to fix or warranty the machine until it was outside according to the instructions.

im a generac installer and service tech. I wouldnt touch a generator placed indoors UNLESS IT WAS UL RATED for indoor use, and those are mucho $$$$.

Personally, i dont install diesel units for one reason..i get messed with by EPA unless i create a diesel containment zone under unit. To do this to there specs is crazy expensive. If someone contacts me requesting diesel i dont bother with bid. I tell them why and let them contact a commercial installer.

As far as size goes, it depends on actual load against panel. Ive been able to get alot of heavy electrical dependant homes to work on a 22 kw air cooled unit using Generacs wireless load shed modules.

These modules allow the heavier duty loads to cycle on 15 seconds apart to spread out the start loads. They will also automatically shed them if the gen gets below 50 HZ. You can also set them to never run the perticular item if the generator is running. This feature is great for shutting down redundant water heaters or supplimental electric heat strips.

Ive been able to operate a large house with 400 amp service on a 96 amp generator without any issues.

But i do run into the occasionsl client that wants everything.... Including heated gutters, heated driveway and heated towel bars to run. For them, i use the 48KW QUIETSOURCE. If they have the money, ill supply it.

Then theres one guy with a 130Kw unit with 3 x 200 amp transfer switches.i was told that during the last power outage that lasted him 7 days, he was having his propane tanks filled every day. That unit sucks down between 11 and 22 GPH Depending on workload. Yeiks.