Solar power & Wind Power for residental use

[sodamo]

Am I looking at the correct graph ? The one I saw in your link shows US Residential pricing going up about 50% in the '05 - '15 period. Rgds, D.

Yea, the one that went 8cents to 12, but not 18.

David Sent from my iPad Air using TractorByNet

 

[buickanddeere]

When researching. Also check world wide energy rates pre-green energy and current prices. Denmark and Germany come to mind in particular.

 

[OldMcDonald]

Molten salt is a Neutron transparent heat transport fluid for nuclear reactors.
Why store heat with the costs and space required due to low density. When the reactor can be just dialed up and down to control heat.

Sorry, I do not understand what you mean that it is a "heat transport fluid" if it is not used for storing heat. Where does it acquire the heat (to become molten) and to where does it transport that heat? If it is used to take heat away from the reactor to somewhere else, is that heat used or wasted? Kenny G is suggesting that it is used to store heat, although not for electricity generation, just to cool the reactor. Could the heat be used (thereby cooling the mix) so that the salts can absorb more heat from the reactor?

My original question was do you think the heat (whether just presently transported away from somewhere, or to be stored) could be used to produce more electricity? It seems it is not used to generate power at present, and that seems a waste. I did some Googling after reading your initial post about molten salt, but did not find much info. That is why I decided to ask you.

 

[OldMcDonald]

Portuguese kWh prices are (from 1st January) 15.85 centimos, so at €1.09 to $US1 = 14.54 cents. Last year's prices were marginally lower at 15.22c. I do not have info to hand, but I seem to remember prices were about 12c when we arrived here - 13 years ago yesterday. I could be wrong so do not quote me. Standing charges are 86.68c a day or between $US24 to 25 a month.

At 12c it is an increase of about a third in 13 years, and at 11c an increase of just over 40%. In the same time petrol has increased by 65% - 80c to €1.32. Wine seems to have increased by a similar margin, and propane has more than doubled.

 

[3930dave]

Yea, the one that went 8cents to 12, but not 18.

David Sent from my iPad Air using TractorByNet

Few people had their income increase by 50% over those same 10 years.

Coupled with rural interconnect costs, that trajectory is making off-grid more attractive.

Rgds, D.

 

[KennyG]

Does the salt operate at less pressure and allow for a simpler containment system?

Yes, the salt is essentially at atmospheric pressure. The only reason water is pressurized in a conventional reactor is to allow it to remain liquid at temperatures over 600 deg F. In a salt cooled reactor, if I recall correctly, the salt can be heated to over 800 deg F at atmospheric pressure and remain liquid.

In answer to another question, yes, the salt stores heat, but the amount of salt is only enough to transfer the heat from the reactor core to the steam generators. That would only store the full reactor output for a short time. However, the decay heat is !% or less of full output so it can store decay heat for a long period.

 

[Egon]

Thanks KennyG.

 

[OldMcDonald]

KennyG, Thanks for that. Is my understanding correct that, as with molten salts in a solar powered system (where the sun's heat is concentrated to heat the salts to a liquid state - typical temps exceed 1000F according to the 'net, the heat is then used to produce steam to drive generators?

If that is so, then the salts are storing heat, which is capable of continually being renewed to working temperature by the reactor (if I understand correctly) since you are saying that all but 1% or so of the heat is unused in the steam production. That would make it similar to the way the solar heated method operates (this keeps me on topic!!) except that the solar method stores the heat for use overnight, and uses much more of the stored heat, possibly/probably/definitely enough that the salts return to a solid state due to the drop in temperature, therefore needing to be reheated to a much greater degree than that used in the nuclear method.

The nuclear also has the advantage of being able to add more heat on a permanent basis, (must add more to maintain the cooling process?) whereas the solar relies on the sun during daylight hours. Or, if the stored heat at sunrise in the solar method still remains high enough to produce steam for the generators, it merely needs to be "topped up" as with the nuclear method. I do not know, because the blurb is all about being able to produce electricity from the sun during the night. As with most things in life neither side gives you the full info.

 

[buickanddeere]

Sorry, I do not understand what you mean that it is a "heat transport fluid" if it is not used for storing heat. Where does it acquire the heat (to become molten) and to where does it transport that heat? If it is used to take heat away from the reactor to somewhere else, is that heat used or wasted? Kenny G is suggesting that it is used to store heat, although not for electricity generation, just to cool the reactor. Could the heat be used (thereby cooling the mix) so that the salts can absorb more heat from the reactor?

My original question was do you think the heat (whether just presently transported away from somewhere, or to be stored) could be used to produce more electricity? It seems it is not used to generate power at present, and that seems a waste. I did some Googling after reading your initial post about molten salt, but did not find much info. That is why I decided to ask you.

Absorbs heat from nuclear fission of Nuclear fuels Th-232 or higher. carries thermal energy to boilers to generate steam to spin turbines.

 

[buickanddeere]

KennyG, Thanks for that. Is my understanding correct that, as with molten salts in a solar powered system (where the sun's heat is concentrated to heat the salts to a liquid state - typical temps exceed 1000F according to the 'net, the heat is then used to produce steam to drive generators?

If that is so, then the salts are storing heat, which is capable of continually being renewed to working temperature by the reactor (if I understand correctly) since you are saying that all but 1% or so of the heat is unused in the steam production. That would make it similar to the way the solar heated method operates (this keeps me on topic!!) except that the solar method stores the heat for use overnight, and uses much more of the stored heat, possibly/probably/definitely enough that the salts return to a solid state due to the drop in temperature, therefore needing to be reheated to a much greater degree than that used in the nuclear method.

The nuclear also has the advantage of being able to add more heat on a permanent basis, (must add more to maintain the cooling process?) whereas the solar relies on the sun during daylight hours. Or, if the stored heat at sunrise in the solar method still remains high enough to produce steam for the generators, it merely needs to be "topped up" as with the nuclear method. I do not know, because the blurb is all about being able to produce electricity from the sun during the night. As with most things in life neither side gives you the full info.

Nuclear in particular is best ran up to 100% power and operated at that level for months at a time without changing power levels.