Solar power & Wind Power for residental use

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   / Solar power & Wind Power for residental use #351  
That can be solved by facing the panels rather west than south and simple thermal absorber that would run the AC few hours after sunset. Somebody need to develop such thing integrated with the AC heat pump.


Already done with tracking solar panels to catch the east and west sun. Still with tracking the sun's energy rapidly drops three hours prior and three hours past mid day solar peak.
"Thermal storage" sounds great yet it is not used due to initial cost, cost of maintenance , no room for it and ROI that doesn't break even.
 
   / Solar power & Wind Power for residental use #352  
Good post shib. As I have stated previously, subsidies do not belong in a free market production environment... period.
Thanks... Couldn't agree more. Thanks to wind subsidies and the EPA's over-regulated emissions restrictions( IMO designed to eliminate coal-fired plants) fewer and fewer coal units are available for dispatch. Less generation means less reserves. This is truly concerning because coal accounts for a large portion of base load. The government subsidizes one type of generation into economics and regulates another type out of economics. They aren't fools they know exactly what they're doing. They just don't realize the actual impact it will have in the future or they just don't care. Sorry to rant... I kinda got off subject, just felt like throwing in my 2 cents.
 
   / Solar power & Wind Power for residental use #353  
Because wind and solar can't compete with traditional power sources like coal, nuclear or NG. Wind and solar aren't economically feasible without the subsidies. IMO The large scale solar and wind are the main source of subsidies not residential and businesses. They cost the tax payer billions in subsidies. The end result hasn't saved the consumer a dime. It's actually cost the taxpayer more money...

If they are not economically feasible, then why in the He77 are we pumping taxpayer money into them? Who want's higher electricity prices? I sure don't. I sure want clean air, so why aren't we pumping money into making the traditional sources of electricity cleaner? Why aren't we building thorium nuclear plants? Why are we screwing around with windmills if they are not economically feasible? Why ask why?
 
   / Solar power & Wind Power for residental use #354  
If they are not economically feasible, then why in the He77 are we pumping taxpayer money into them? Who want's higher electricity prices? I sure don't. I sure want clean air, so why aren't we pumping money into making the traditional sources of electricity cleaner? Why aren't we building thorium nuclear plants? Why are we screwing around with windmills if they are not economically feasible? Why ask why?



Why ? Because under the guise of "green, save the world for your baby's babies". Investors in wind and solar are guarantied a high profit with subsidized rates under contract for 20 years. For the good of the world . Then there is a pot load of $$$ to be made selling carbon credits. Why else have oil companies invested in wind and solar. Good for public image too.
 
   / Solar power & Wind Power for residental use #355  
I wasn't purposely attacking anything or anybody personally. My apologies when it comes across that way. I was addressing the facts that the typical reader would not know or think of asking about. And thank you, I do try to be entertaining if and when possible. I also do stage theater. Big Chief in Peter Pan, the pantomime was the latest.
Unlike most on this site and unlike 99.99999999999999% of the green advocates in the media. I work in the power generation industry and understand firsthand what is practical and what is not. There is what sounds good for an ideal clean world and what works on Star Trek or the promises made on a 30 second greenie interview. Some of these greenies make a good living making promises. Then there is the harsh reality of the real world . Limited sun, unreliable wind, the need for backup power, clouds, I2R losses and $$$ energy storage with low energy density.
If a system can not operate without subsidies then it is not practical.
Some folk are not familiar with the schemes for solar PV across all time zones in the US south and wind turbines everywhere. Then transmit the PV & wind electricity to the north west in the morning and the north east in the evening ? Hence 2500+ mile transmission lines . Even with DC the cost and losses would be prohibitive.
About the best we can do is the next generation molton salt or PHWR reactors to use low grade fuel and Thorium for base load power. Hydro electric provides some limited peaking capacity. Fossial to load follow the peaks. Wind and solar fine, but they get paid the same wholesale grid rate as everybody else.
Wind and solar is actually a worthwhile addition to small isolated electrical grids without baseload power. That primarily generate with imported diesel fuel in turbo diesels and gas turbines. Where wholesale electrical prices are 20+ US cents per Kw/hr. Hawaii and maybe Alaska for a developed country.Small undeveloped countries glad to have some power at any time. Haiti comes to mind as just one.

You may work in the power generation industry, but you don't know much about it. Government subsidies pay off big in the long run. Much of my power comes from the BPA. There was substantial opposition to the expense when they were building all those dams on the Columbia, but now they run power 2500 miles to SoCal. The West Coast is pretty well interconnected, but there isn't much capacity heading east. I believe there is a comparable large hydro project on the Mississippi called the TVA.

Distributed alternative energy sources are more stable than localized alternative sources. If the wind isn't blowing in Oklahoma it will be blowing in Washington. You don't have to ship the power 2500 miles, because there is both load and generating capacity distributed along the grid. Sending power from Stateline to Denver means you don't have to send power from Blue Canyon to Denver. Almost all utilities subsidize conservation because if you can conserve 500 mw that's 500 mw of generating capacity you don't have to build and operate. The US is phasing out incandescent lighting for exactly that reason, and has mandated energy star appliances.

We have certainly not reached the end of R&D on electricity storage. You may dismiss solid state capacitors as vaporware, but the Chinese are running a demonstration electric bus system using them. Unlike batteries, solid state capacitors don't wear out and can be charged in seconds rather than hours. The Chinese buses charge in 15 seconds at bus stops.

The most likely system for providing base load power in the future is geothermal. Almost all parts of North America have adequate radioactive material in the rocks to provide the heat, and the new drilling and fracking technology pioneered by the petro industry should make it accessible. Right now natural gas is cheap, so there is no incentive to develop another fuel free energy source, but natural gas won't last forever.
 
   / Solar power & Wind Power for residental use #356  
Someone please explain to me why wind and solar are subsidized by the "government"? Why should the "government" which means the taxpayers, which means ME, should pay for installing systems in peoples homes and business's? Why not let them buy their own Wind and Solar systems? With their own money instead of MY money? Why not let wind and solar compete in the marketplace on an equal footing?

The same reason hydro is subsidized by the government, or roads for that matter. Energy generation is a basic national infrastructure that is poorly served by private industry.
 
   / Solar power & Wind Power for residental use #357  
Everyone is entitled to an opinion re. govt subsidies for new energy technology.

At the risk of damning with faint praise.... IMO, new energy sources are not the worst thing that my govt pours money into. I hold that view separately from my opinion on electricity rate hikes...... only a portion of those increases here is going into alternative energy, the rest is just a general tax grab. Green-washing in other words.

If you look around (Oil, Ag, Mining to name just a few.....) many long established industries are also heavily subsidized. Even if they are allowed to do nothing else but walk away from the messes they create, that alone is a massive subsidy. While I personally would like to see zero subsidies for all mature industries, I expect that this practice will still be going strong long after I'm gone.

As a society, we'd probably be better served if these subsidy choices weren't primarily driven by who has the best-paid lobbyists.....

We need to move ahead. 100 years ago many people were probably saying that gasoline won't really catch on. Some new technologies work out, some don't; that's always been the nature of tech development.

Rgds, D.
 
   / Solar power & Wind Power for residental use #358  
Everyone is entitled to an opinion re. govt subsidies for new energy technology. At the risk of damning with faint praise.... IMO, new energy sources are not the worst thing that my govt pours money into. I hold that view separately from my opinion on electricity rate hikes...... only a portion of those increases here is going into alternative energy, the rest is just a general tax grab. Green-washing in other words. If you look around (Oil, Ag, Mining to name just a few.....) many long established industries are also heavily subsidized. Even if they are allowed to do nothing else but walk away from the messes they create, that alone is a massive subsidy. While I personally would like to see zero subsidies for all mature industries, I expect that this practice will still be going strong long after I'm gone. As a society, we'd probably be better served if these subsidy choices weren't primarily driven by who has the best-paid lobbyists..... We need to move ahead. 100 years ago many people were probably saying that gasoline won't really catch on. Some new technologies work out, some don't; that's always been the nature of tech development. Rgds, D.
Cool as long as you understand your govt is the State you live in...HS
 
   / Solar power & Wind Power for residental use #359  
Cool as long as you understand your govt is the State you live in...HS

If you mean YMMV, depending on where exactly you live, then I understand your point.

In the electricity price thread, there are still people (continental USA) paying around 4cents/kwh, flat rate. If I was looking for a place to retire on-grid, that would be a key consideration for me.

Rgds, D.
 
   / Solar power & Wind Power for residental use #360  
The justification for subsidies is simple. Assuming there are inherent costs not paid by fossil fuel plants (i.e. climate changes) the subsidy is needed to "level the playing field" and gain the benefits of "renewables".

In the real world it's much less clear. No one has the slightest idea how to quantify the cost of climate change, even if it exists. Throwing subsidies into an already flawed market results in lots of unintended consequences like grid instability and unexpected costs for the infrastructure. It also has a negative result on climate change when wind forces a baseload nuclear plant (no carbon) to close and be replaced by a mix of wind and natural gas generation.
 
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