New electrical panel question

[dickfoster]

I suspect it is not unusual to pay more for 3 phase service. They are probably using 3 transformer set up, which costs them more.

I wonder how many people really know how many amps they draw.

Easy enough to figure it out from your power bills but PGE doesn't make that easy with all their baseline tiered mumbo jumbo to get more money out of your pocket. IMHO power should be billed at a flat rate for everyone based on costs, enough of this socialism and gubberment mandated kinda stuff.

 

[LD1]

I'm trying to think how that would operate two fridges, a freezer, electric stove, microwave, toaster, coffee pot, hair dryer, electric water heater, electric well pump,electric clothes dryer, 22Kw of electric heat, block heater on the tractor and water heat trace for the critter's water pipes.
Then if we ever dialed the welder up to 300amps.........

30a does sound small for a 3bdrm house. But being 30a 120v I am guessing dryer, water heater, stove are gas as well as heating???

Take all of the 240v stuff out of a house, and it dont need much amperage.

 

[teejk]

Easy enough to figure it out from your power bills but PGE doesn't make that easy with all their baseline tiered mumbo jumbo to get more money out of your pocket. IMHO power should be billed at a flat rate for everyone based on costs, enough of this socialism and gubberment mandated kinda stuff.

That "fixed" vs. "usage" charges have been mandated for years in Wisconsin. Everybody shares in the costs of maintaining the infrastructure (the "fixed") that way...whether you use 1 kwh or zillions per month you still need the ability to get it. From there you pay on what you use. Now I realize there is a lot of "cost accounting" involved (that $2,000 hammer) but here they are watched closely by people that are hardly fans of the utilities.

 

[teejk]

I'm trying to think how that would operate two fridges, a freezer, electric stove, microwave, toaster, coffee pot, hair dryer, electric water heater, electric well pump,electric clothes dryer, 22Kw of electric heat, block heater on the tractor and water heat trace for the critter's water pipes.
Then if we ever dialed the welder up to 300amps.........

Grew up in a house with 60a service which I guess was "premier" for its time (mid 50's build). Number of devices has certainly increased but the draw has decreased (evidenced best by the utilities trying to shift costs to the "fixed" side from the "usage" side). But I agree...100a minimum today, 200a better.

 

[ultrarunner]

All these homes were built in 1922 and I bought from the original owner... have had a family of 5 living there with 3 teenage daughters.

City water, gas heat, gas cooking, gas water heater and gas clothes dryer... never freezes or gets hot... Oakland really has an ideal climate... the home does have a gravity central furnace with large ducts... no fan or blower...

The week power was out after the 1989 SF Earthquake I did OK... still could cook, had hot water, heat and cooking.

My neighbors with the upgraded 150-200 amp panels and modern furnaces and self cleaning ranges didn't do so well...

Always did laundry on Saturday and used a counter-top Microwave... so not totally primitive.

I've owned the home 31 years and the 5 years I lived there I never replaced a fuse...

The family with 3 girls had problems when they first moved in... seemed they all had hairdryers and curling irons and wanted to use them at the same time...

I want to relate the most extreme example I have come across... it is a 3 unit triplex built as a duplex in 1928 with a legal basement unit added during WWII.. so three legal units...

The entire Triplex is on one single 30 amp Edison Fuse Main... so the Landlord pays for Electricity... each unit has an individual gas meter...

Really shows were we were and where we are...

 

[ultrarunner]

Grew up in a house with 60a service which I guess was "premier" for its time (mid 50's build). Number of devices has certainly increased but the draw has decreased (evidenced best by the utilities trying to shift costs to the "fixed" side from the "usage" side). But I agree...100a minimum today, 200a better.

My brothers 2200 square foot home after his three additions still has the original 220v 60amp cartridge fuse main...

Also extensive use of gas... he does have central HVAC with a 30 amp circuit.

Sold the home two years ago in a bidding war for 840k with the 60 amp service...

Home Inspector came out and noted the size, looked under the cover and noted is was original 1950 with permit.

The house had many inspections and each inspector said it was one of the best maintained homes they have come across... you see I did all the work!

 

[CobyRupert]

Easy enough to figure it out from your power bills but PGE doesn't make that easy with all their baseline tiered mumbo jumbo to get more money out of your pocket. IMHO power should be billed at a flat rate for everyone based on costs, enough of this socialism and gubberment mandated kinda stuff.

Trying to figure out how much power (amps) one draws from your energy usage (bill) is like trying to figure out what your (maximum) speed was by using your odometer and a stop watch.
You can only figure out your average speed, not your peak. (e.g. like saying if I went 100 miles in 2 hours, I must of only been driving 50mph. See if a cop buys the argument. Paying attention to peak, not average, is the important part if your sizing breakers and conductors or avoiding speeding tickets.

 

[joefromga]

This will tell you everything you need to know .

The Energy Detective Electricity Monitor

 

[ultrarunner]

I've been using these around the Hospital Campus to track usage, peak usage and other useful Data...

Home | E-Mon

 

[dickfoster]

Trying to figure out how much power (amps) one draws from your energy usage (bill) is like trying to figure out what your (maximum) speed was by using your odometer and a stop watch.
You can only figure out your average speed, not your peak. (e.g. like saying if I went 100 miles in 2 hours, I must of only been driving 50mph. See if a cop buys the argument. Paying attention to peak, not average, is the important part if your sizing breakers and conductors or avoiding speeding tickets.

The best way to measure peak current draw is to use clamp-on amp meters, which I have a couple of anyway.
Of course you size the conductors for the max anticipated current draw of the circuit then size the breaker to the conductor. The purpose of the breaker is just to keep your house from burning down. Trouble is you have to anticipate up front what you'll need down the road or you'll end up likely paying more if you didn't plan for enough.