New electrical panel question

[techman]

I noticed a spike after the smart meter was installed...

One account that I have had for 17 years always had no usage... just paid the minimum
The ONLY load was from a very small sprinkler transformer.

When the smart meter went in I started to show a couple of kW each month... nothing changed but the meter... I'm guess it is much more sensitive to minute loads?

At the cabin I would have everything off and still recorded minute usage... last summer I opened the knife switch below the meter and no usage now.

A small transformer as you mentioned is 5-10 watts, depending on the load efficiency, etc

That would be 3.5-7 KWH for a month. It is likely true as you mentioned that the newer meters are more "sensitive" and better at measuring small loads. Looks like you got away for years "slipping under the radar" with the older mechanical meter. Bearing and gear friction was often greater than the available driving forces at very small loads, with it worse as the meter aged. People complain but it is likely more accurate today to the dismay of the complainers.

paul

 

[ultrarunner]

I didn't exactly get away as there was a $5 charge per month even if you did not use any...

So I could be using 20 kW at .25 cents or not a single kW and the charge would have been the same $5.

Last month the new minimum is $15... seems too many are now going solar and register no net usage... so the Utility is dropping the cost per kW a penny or two and doubling up on the minimum usage fees...

The meter is a "House" meter for a duplex with each unit separately metered...

That is a story onto itself... 30 years ago the lease was written acknowledging the sprinkler timer...

A new tenant moved and went to the PUC and the Utility Board stating she had no control over my "Usage"... it was in a locked box.

The real issue was her very high electric bill.... they had several very large salt water aquariums with heaters and pumps... 24/7

Anyway... I had to pull a permit and install a House Meter for that timer... soon after she moved out...

 

[teejk]

I didn't exactly get away as there was a $5 charge per month even if you did not use any...

So I could be using 20 kW at .25 cents or not a single kW and the charge would have been the same $5.

Last month the new minimum is $15... seems too many are now going solar and register no net usage... so the Utility is dropping the cost per kW a penny or two and doubling up on the minimum usage fees...

The meter is a "House" meter for a duplex with each unit separately metered...

That is a story onto itself... 30 years ago the lease was written acknowledging the sprinkler timer...

A new tenant moved and went to the PUC and the Utility Board stating she had no control over my "Usage"... it was in a locked box.

The real issue was her very high electric bill.... they had several very large salt water aquariums with heaters and pumps... 24/7

Anyway... I had to pull a permit and install a House Meter for that timer... soon after she moved out...

I think our "fixed charge" is $30+. Understandable because not a lot of users but a lot of poles and wire to maintain regardless.

 

[ultrarunner]

Population 420,000 with many on 25 to 40' wide lots from the 1920's forward...

 

[Zerk]

Ultrarunner, you point out exactly why utilities need multi-tiered mumbo jumbo socialist gubbermint mandated billing. It makes sense to have incentives in the market so utilities don't have to overbuild transmission and distribution systems to handle 5 minutes of peak load a year when the average load is only 40% of that. That is the point of demand metering so there's an monetary incentive to use power during off peak hours.
When you hear the phrase "smart meters" this is what they have in store for residential users in the future. It's coming....

Why does the government need to be involved?

Utilities will give industrial costumers discounts if they agree to shed load in 15 minutes. They also have programs to entice residential people with time of use rates.

They also have power plants that are built to run at base load all the time, and others that are built to ramp up to me needs.


Some of biggest days for power uses is in when it is hot out. Not much you can do about that. If you want to choose the tree hugger size and not run your AC, so I can run mine, thanks.

Also a large part of new construction is to meet new enviromental standards, which is good and bad.

 

[Zerk]

I didn't exactly get away as there was a $5 charge per month even if you did not use any...

So I could be using 20 kW at .25 cents or not a single kW and the charge would have been the same $5.Anyway... I had to pull a permit and install a House Meter for that timer... soon after she moved out...

No. You saved money all these years because your meter was not giving an accurate reading.

Your usage is typically added to the meter charge. You pay for the luxory of having power available to you all the time, and the ability to get it fixed when it goes out.

People with solar who complain about paying for a meter, would complain if the power wasn't there. They want a free emergency generator.

You pay for insurance on your car if it sits in the driveway.



A funny side effect from people saving power, is people are using less, so less money for maintaining the system. Juat as some DOTs will say we need to raise gas tax because cars are to efficient or people are driving less.

 

[teejk]

You pay for the luxory of having power available to you all the time, and the ability to get it fixed when it goes out. People with solar who complain about paying for a meter, would complain if the power wasn't there.

You pay for insurance on your car if it sits in the driveway.

A funny side effect from people saving power, is people are using less, so less money for maintaining the system. Juat as some DOTs will say we need to raise gas tax because cars are to efficient or people are driving less.

Think this says it all...and good analogy on gas taxes (roads still need to be there) but not so sure gas taxes are the fairest way to fund it.

 

[ultrarunner]

No. You saved money all these years because your meter was not giving an accurate reading.

Your usage is typically added to the meter charge. You pay for the luxory of having power available to you all the time, and the ability to get it fixed when it goes out.

People with solar who complain about paying for a meter, would complain if the power wasn't there. They want a free emergency generator.

You pay for insurance on your car if it sits in the driveway.



A funny side effect from people saving power, is people are using less, so less money for maintaining the system. Juat as some DOTs will say we need to raise gas tax because cars are to efficient or people are driving less.

Not to be difficult... it was the Power Company's Meter that was not Accurate... I had no choice in the matter and the Power Company sided with the tenant and forced my hand to install the House Meter... very unusual for a Duplex... then again, my Section 8 Tenant at the time was very good at voicing her concerns...

With the new rate schedule I'm thinking I should run a circuit to the shared laundry room... it is free electricity in that I pay the $15 if I use $15 worth of electricity or not.

With the increase fees that will soon be about $300 to license a car if the Governor has his way... I let 16 of the collector cars go to a one time $20 fee per car to not drive them...

I can either trailer to the show or get a trip permit... antique car insurance for 24 cars cost less than my combined 85 and 91 Chevrolet trucks and 2002 325iT

 

[ultrarunner]

Think this says it all...and good analogy on gas taxes (roads still need to be there) but not so sure gas taxes are the fairest way to fund it.

Specially when they take gas tax money to build bike and pedestrian lanes... just how much in gas tax does a bicycle pay... they don't even license them anymore at the Fire House as was required when I was young.

Those with the 100k Teslas fly by in the commuter lanes with a single occupant where a gas tax paying single driver would be charged $9

Crazy economics....

 

[joefromga]

Why does the government need to be involved?