You need balast or you will trash your front axle!!!! really?

   / You need balast or you will trash your front axle!!!! really? #291  
I think that it is worth bringing up again gladehound's original point.

3pt ballast (counterweight) probably does not take a significant amount or stress off the front axle in most cases.

That is not the same as saying ballast is a bad idea.

In some cases 3pth ballast may actually lead to MORE front axle stress (ability to lift larger loads or increased lateral inertia)

Glade, please correct me if I have misrepresented your thoughts.
 
   / You need balast or you will trash your front axle!!!! really? #292  
I think that it is worth bringing up again gladehound's original point.

3pt ballast (counterweight) probably does not take a significant amount or stress off the front axle in most cases.

That is not the same as saying ballast is a bad idea.

In some cases 3pth ballast may actually lead to MORE front axle stress (ability to lift larger loads or increased lateral inertia)

Glade, please correct me if I have misrepresented your thoughts.

Only thing I would add is "ballast" and "counterweight" are not the same thing. Ballast is weight added at the rear tires, weights, fluid, duals, etc. Counterweight is weight added behind the rear axle.

Ballast does nothing to relieve weight from the front axle. It's purpose is to add weight directly to the rear tires.

Counterweight's primary purpose is removing weight from the front axle. It's secondary purpose is adding weight to the rear tires. Until you get to those "some cases" you referred to above. :)
 
   / You need balast or you will trash your front axle!!!! really? #293  
In my mind counterweight just describes the locaton of the ballast. But that's just semantics.

I use counterweight to keep the rear tire on the ground because it's easily removable and my loaded tires aren't enough and wheel weights are a PITA to put on and take off.
Maybe I missed it but I haven't seen anyone prove to me that 1000-2000lbs on a 3pth takes a significant amount of weight off the front axle. Some weight? Absolutely. A "significant" amount of weight? I don't think so.
Maybe I'm wrong.
 
   / You need balast or you will trash your front axle!!!! really? #294  
In my mind counterweight just describes the locaton of the ballast. But that's just semantics.

I use counterweight to keep the rear tire on the ground because it's easily removable and my loaded tires aren't enough and wheel weights are a PITA to put on and take off.
Maybe I missed it but I haven't seen anyone prove to me that 1000-2000lbs on a 3pth takes a significant amount of weight off the front axle. Some weight? Absolutely. A "significant" amount of weight? I don't think so.
Maybe I'm wrong.

Well, the words some and significant have no meaning. They are relative terms not absolute. Soooo.. No point in going further. If I proved to you that placing 1000 lbs on the 3pt took 1000 lbs off of the front axle (easily possible if placed at the correct distance behind the lift balls), that might be some or that might be significant. That is a losing proposition.
 
   / You need balast or you will trash your front axle!!!! really? #295  
That was good James, I like it. So profound?.
 
   / You need balast or you will trash your front axle!!!! really? #296  
   / You need balast or you will trash your front axle!!!! really?
  • Thread Starter
#297  
In my mind counterweight just describes the locaton of the ballast. But that's just semantics.

I use counterweight to keep the rear tire on the ground because it's easily removable and my loaded tires aren't enough and wheel weights are a PITA to put on and take off.
Maybe I missed it but I haven't seen anyone prove to me that 1000-2000lbs on a 3pth takes a significant amount of weight off the front axle. Some weight? Absolutely. A "significant" amount of weight? I don't think so.
Maybe I'm wrong.

For heavy loader work you're right and that was the point of my first post. A 2000 3pt weight box only takes 1,000 pounds or 15-20% off my front axle during a heavy lift. (assumes weight box CG is 3ft behind rear axle and wheel base is 6 ft; assumes)

However, If I don't, I'm sure someone else will jump in and remind us that without the loader on and without front weights, it's not uncommon to be able to lift a rear implement with the 3pt hitch that is heavy enough to bring the front end off the ground. In this case, you removed 100% of the weight from the front axle. But this second example has nothing to do with the situation I was asking about. I only state it because if I don't someone else will.

Every other static scenario would be somewhere in between these two.
 
   / You need balast or you will trash your front axle!!!! really?
  • Thread Starter
#298  
I think that it is worth bringing up again gladehound's original point.

3pt ballast (counterweight) probably does not take a significant amount or stress off the front axle in most cases.

That is not the same as saying ballast is a bad idea.

In some cases 3pth ballast may actually lead to MORE front axle stress (ability to lift larger loads or increased lateral inertia)

Glade, please correct me if I have misrepresented your thoughts.

:thumbsup: Why didn't I just state it that way in the first place! :confused3:
 
   / You need balast or you will trash your front axle!!!! really?
  • Thread Starter
#299  
Well, the words some and significant have no meaning. They are relative terms not absolute. Soooo.. No point in going further. If I proved to you that placing 1000 lbs on the 3pt took 1000 lbs off of the front axle (easily possible if placed at the correct distance behind the lift balls), that might be some or that might be significant. That is a losing proposition.

I might as well add in that if your 3pt was configured as a perfect parallelogram you could remove all the weight from the front axle no matter how much weight you were lifting with the loader as long as our counter weight was far enough back (and nothing breaks). That is unless of course you have a self leveling loader ;)
 
   / You need balast or you will trash your front axle!!!! really? #300  
Every other static scenario would be somewhere in between these two.

There it is. You have the 100% correct conclusion. :) Use appropriate counterbalance behind rear axle and far enough out to return your front axle to somewhere approximating its normal unloaded operating range on average during work periods. Still able to steer, and not adding the full additional 1,000-2,000+ pounds of force directly on the axle stress points that can come from a full bucket, full forks, or full grapple.

When using the loader you are loaded about half the time, and unloaded the other half. Too much counter balance/ballast/weight would have you doing wheelies back to the gravel pile between loads! Can we get to 300 replies here?
 

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