Where does it stop?

[4570Man]

Then why when hauling a similar load does my Gear International go faster up the hill than its brother which is the same frame and designation with the only difference being one is HST and the other a power reverse. Let me see if I can remember the HST is rated to have a max speed that is higher than the power shuttle but to this day since new it could not keep up with the gear doing anything unless it was flat ground with no load at all. I guess after 36 years of ownership I still don't have a clue how to operate the HST ?

If you still try to climb a hill in high range then apparently you don't have a clue how to operate a HST. I never said I'd climb the hill as fast, but my HST will climb ANY hill the same model gear will.

 

[jenkinsph]

In all my years I have not had one gear transmission get stuck between ranges, pop out of the gear I was in or free wheel down a hill. I did however have HSt get stuck between ranges and was not able to get it into gear again till the bottom of the hill. Now I know that in most cases I would choose the gear and range before getting onto the hill but understand not all hills are the same and much of my property does not require shifting to lower ranges until your near the top.

So go ahead and fool yourself into thinking that one is safer than the other as they are both just as dangerous!

Just wanted to add that with a few of the recent tractors I test drove the HST was much more likely to cause jerky movements than I would ever experience with a gear drive. Even my wife who prefers the HST was very unhappy with the electronic control that many are implementing.

Funny, your example of the range GEAR being the problem with free wheeling down a hill. I have enough experience to know to leave a tractor range gear alone when on a very steep slope.

 

[paulfun9]

Funny, your example of the range GEAR being the problem with free wheeling down a hill. I have enough experience to know to leave a tractor range gear alone when on a very steep slope.

Yep I am going to take every hill from the bottom in low range and add days to my work load because you say HST is best and I shouldn't shift anything on the hill. Secondly I didn't say anything about how steep of a slope only the gear and range needed to negotiate the hill at the desired speed I wanted to travel at based on the implement I am using at the time. Basically your trying to generalize my use as being the same as yours and assuming a lot to get the outcome you want. Having the same size and power of equipment in both HST and gear has proven to me time and again that HST is not better on hills never was and never will be because the work needs to get done! Third I never said I did shift the range on HST only that I have been stuck on the hill with it between ranges and that particular time It simply skipped out all on its own and left me sitting there with nothing else to do but free wheel down the hill as it wouldn't go back in for some reason. I do however shift from range to range when ever I feel like and don't really care if its on a hill or not as I still haven't found an owners manual that says I cant.

 

[jenkinsph]

Yep I am going to take every hill from the bottom in low range and add days to my work load because you say HST is best and I shouldn't shift anything on the hill. Secondly I didn't say anything about how steep of a slope only the gear and range needed to negotiate the hill at the desired speed I wanted to travel at based on the implement I am using at the time. Basically your trying to generalize my use as being the same as yours and assuming a lot to get the outcome you want. Having the same size and power of equipment in both HST and gear has proven to me time and again that HST is not better on hills never was and never will be because the work needs to get done!

Paul,
You need to take a breather man, this is a simple discussion about tractors. Calm down.

 

[Jim Timber]

Went out today and hooked up my pallet forks, then took my bush hog off my trailer and then needed to spin it around (aka pick it from a different direction), and did it all with my geared tractor. I must've hit the clutch a dozen times? I don't know! It was sooo easy I didn't keep track. :laughing:

I creeped, I reversed, I even switched ranges (because I use A when parking it in the container). All of this must make me a super hero of coordination based on the comments.

The bit about wheelies earlier went over some heads. See, horsepower is a derrivative of torque. Torque is what does all work, but how quickly you can apply it is the benchmark we base everything on. Torque converters, HSTs, and fluid power in general is all about torque or force multiplication, but it's at the expense of time. So your 35 engine horsepower will not be 35 horsepower after the HST. It very well will have more torque than you started with, but your transmission shaft will never spin at the same RPM as your engine, which means you're always losing horsepower.

Does it matter? Maybe, maybe not. Some of us think it does. I get 58 PTO horsepower out of a hair more than 3 gallons per hour. I've seen HST guys claiming 1/3rd that on half the fuel. That's a big difference to me.

 

[paulfun9]

Paul,
You need to take a breather man, this is a simple discussion about tractors. Calm down.

Who said I was upset? Maybe its you who needs to calm down I don't know but things around here are really calm the dog is sleeping by the fireplace the wife just brought me some fresh baked cookies and a glass of milk and I know I can sleep in tomorrow because I shifted gears on the hill side rather than wasting my time in low range with the HST and got all the work done a day ahead of time. Have a good night:cool2:

 

[paulfun9]

If you still try to climb a hill in high range then apparently you don't have a clue how to operate a HST. I never said I'd climb the hill as fast, but my HST will climb ANY hill the same model gear will.

So now you assume I climb all hills in high range? Yes you can climb any hill at a snails pace but I need to get done a good bit faster than a snail can get to the top.

 

[paulfun9]

Went out today and hooked up my pallet forks, then took my bush hog off my trailer and then needed to spin it around (aka pick it from a different direction), and did it all with my geared tractor. I must've hit the clutch a dozen times? I don't know! It was sooo easy I didn't keep track. :laughing:

I creeped, I reversed, I even switched ranges (because I use A when parking it in the container). All of this must make me a super hero of coordination based on the comments.

The bit about wheelies earlier went over some heads. See, horsepower is a derrivative of torque. Torque is what does all work, but how quickly you can apply it is the benchmark we base everything on. Torque converters, HSTs, and fluid power in general is all about torque or force multiplication, but it's at the expense of time. So your 35 engine horsepower will not be 35 horsepower after the HST. It very well will have more torque than you started with, but your transmission shaft will never spin at the same RPM as your engine, which means you're always losing horsepower.

Does it matter? Maybe, maybe not. Some of us think it does. I get 58 PTO horsepower out of a hair more than 3 gallons per hour. I've seen HST guys claiming 1/3rd that on half the fuel. That's a big difference to me.

I hope it was perfectly level where you shifted those ranges as you could get hurt doing such a dangerous thing if its not!

 

[Jim Timber]

I hope it was perfectly level where you shifted those ranges as you could get hurt doing such a dangerous thing if its not!

Nope, and I'm a dare devil. I didn't have the ROPS up and didn't have my seatbelt on. Hadn't brushed my teeth yet, and didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn either. Small wonder I lived to speak of the feat!

 

[AxleHub]

Jim Timber posted: "The bit about wheelies earlier went over some heads."

No Jim, I don't think it did. Saying that "wheelies" is proof of something is just not a logical point of debate. Why? Because given the right conditions . . any two axle tractor can do it. Being able to stste an operator can or could do a wheelie is an ego statement not a unique statement .

But I have to wonder why grown adults want to argue about hst vs gear value anyway. Nothing is accomplished . . . Unless the goal is too much time on a person's hands with nothing to do.

I'm out again . .