Where does it stop?

/ Where does it stop? #101  
Then why when hauling a similar load does my Gear International go faster up the hill than its brother which is the same frame and designation with the only difference being one is HST and the other a power reverse. Let me see if I can remember the HST is rated to have a max speed that is higher than the power shuttle but to this day since new it could not keep up with the gear doing anything unless it was flat ground with no load at all. I guess after 36 years of ownership I still don't have a clue how to operate the HST ?
If you still try to climb a hill in high range then apparently you don't have a clue how to operate a HST. I never said I'd climb the hill as fast, but my HST will climb ANY hill the same model gear will.
 
/ Where does it stop? #102  
In all my years I have not had one gear transmission get stuck between ranges, pop out of the gear I was in or free wheel down a hill. I did however have HSt get stuck between ranges and was not able to get it into gear again till the bottom of the hill. Now I know that in most cases I would choose the gear and range before getting onto the hill but understand not all hills are the same and much of my property does not require shifting to lower ranges until your near the top.

So go ahead and fool yourself into thinking that one is safer than the other as they are both just as dangerous!

Just wanted to add that with a few of the recent tractors I test drove the HST was much more likely to cause jerky movements than I would ever experience with a gear drive. Even my wife who prefers the HST was very unhappy with the electronic control that many are implementing.


Funny, your example of the range GEAR being the problem with free wheeling down a hill. I have enough experience to know to leave a tractor range gear alone when on a very steep slope.
 
/ Where does it stop? #103  
Funny, your example of the range GEAR being the problem with free wheeling down a hill. I have enough experience to know to leave a tractor range gear alone when on a very steep slope.



Yep I am going to take every hill from the bottom in low range and add days to my work load because you say HST is best and I shouldn't shift anything on the hill. Secondly I didn't say anything about how steep of a slope only the gear and range needed to negotiate the hill at the desired speed I wanted to travel at based on the implement I am using at the time. Basically your trying to generalize my use as being the same as yours and assuming a lot to get the outcome you want. Having the same size and power of equipment in both HST and gear has proven to me time and again that HST is not better on hills never was and never will be because the work needs to get done! Third I never said I did shift the range on HST only that I have been stuck on the hill with it between ranges and that particular time It simply skipped out all on its own and left me sitting there with nothing else to do but free wheel down the hill as it wouldn't go back in for some reason. I do however shift from range to range when ever I feel like and don't really care if its on a hill or not as I still haven't found an owners manual that says I cant.
 
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/ Where does it stop? #104  
Yep I am going to take every hill from the bottom in low range and add days to my work load because you say HST is best and I shouldn't shift anything on the hill. Secondly I didn't say anything about how steep of a slope only the gear and range needed to negotiate the hill at the desired speed I wanted to travel at based on the implement I am using at the time. Basically your trying to generalize my use as being the same as yours and assuming a lot to get the outcome you want. Having the same size and power of equipment in both HST and gear has proven to me time and again that HST is not better on hills never was and never will be because the work needs to get done!


Paul,
You need to take a breather man, this is a simple discussion about tractors. Calm down.
 
/ Where does it stop? #105  
Went out today and hooked up my pallet forks, then took my bush hog off my trailer and then needed to spin it around (aka pick it from a different direction), and did it all with my geared tractor. I must've hit the clutch a dozen times? I don't know! It was sooo easy I didn't keep track. :laughing:

I creeped, I reversed, I even switched ranges (because I use A when parking it in the container). All of this must make me a super hero of coordination based on the comments. :)

The bit about wheelies earlier went over some heads. See, horsepower is a derrivative of torque. Torque is what does all work, but how quickly you can apply it is the benchmark we base everything on. Torque converters, HSTs, and fluid power in general is all about torque or force multiplication, but it's at the expense of time. So your 35 engine horsepower will not be 35 horsepower after the HST. It very well will have more torque than you started with, but your transmission shaft will never spin at the same RPM as your engine, which means you're always losing horsepower.

Does it matter? Maybe, maybe not. Some of us think it does. I get 58 PTO horsepower out of a hair more than 3 gallons per hour. I've seen HST guys claiming 1/3rd that on half the fuel. That's a big difference to me.
 
/ Where does it stop? #106  
Paul,
You need to take a breather man, this is a simple discussion about tractors. Calm down.

Who said I was upset? Maybe its you who needs to calm down I don't know but things around here are really calm the dog is sleeping by the fireplace the wife just brought me some fresh baked cookies and a glass of milk and I know I can sleep in tomorrow because I shifted gears on the hill side rather than wasting my time in low range with the HST and got all the work done a day ahead of time. Have a good night:cool2:
 
/ Where does it stop? #107  
If you still try to climb a hill in high range then apparently you don't have a clue how to operate a HST. I never said I'd climb the hill as fast, but my HST will climb ANY hill the same model gear will.

So now you assume I climb all hills in high range? Yes you can climb any hill at a snails pace but I need to get done a good bit faster than a snail can get to the top.
 
/ Where does it stop? #108  
Went out today and hooked up my pallet forks, then took my bush hog off my trailer and then needed to spin it around (aka pick it from a different direction), and did it all with my geared tractor. I must've hit the clutch a dozen times? I don't know! It was sooo easy I didn't keep track. :laughing:

I creeped, I reversed, I even switched ranges (because I use A when parking it in the container). All of this must make me a super hero of coordination based on the comments. :)

The bit about wheelies earlier went over some heads. See, horsepower is a derrivative of torque. Torque is what does all work, but how quickly you can apply it is the benchmark we base everything on. Torque converters, HSTs, and fluid power in general is all about torque or force multiplication, but it's at the expense of time. So your 35 engine horsepower will not be 35 horsepower after the HST. It very well will have more torque than you started with, but your transmission shaft will never spin at the same RPM as your engine, which means you're always losing horsepower.

Does it matter? Maybe, maybe not. Some of us think it does. I get 58 PTO horsepower out of a hair more than 3 gallons per hour. I've seen HST guys claiming 1/3rd that on half the fuel. That's a big difference to me.

I hope it was perfectly level where you shifted those ranges as you could get hurt doing such a dangerous thing if its not! ;)
 
/ Where does it stop? #109  
I hope it was perfectly level where you shifted those ranges as you could get hurt doing such a dangerous thing if its not! ;)

Nope, and I'm a dare devil. I didn't have the ROPS up and didn't have my seatbelt on. Hadn't brushed my teeth yet, and didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn either. Small wonder I lived to speak of the feat! :D
 
/ Where does it stop? #110  
Jim Timber posted: "The bit about wheelies earlier went over some heads."

No Jim, I don't think it did. Saying that "wheelies" is proof of something is just not a logical point of debate. Why? Because given the right conditions . . any two axle tractor can do it. Being able to stste an operator can or could do a wheelie is an ego statement not a unique statement .

But I have to wonder why grown adults want to argue about hst vs gear value anyway. Nothing is accomplished . . . Unless the goal is too much time on a person's hands with nothing to do.

I'm out again . .
 
/ Where does it stop? #111  
This is perhaps the most aptly titled thread.

Where indeed??
 
/ Where does it stop? #112  
This is perhaps the most aptly titled thread.

Where indeed??

Its like the twilight zone . . . I can stop back every few days and I don't have to even read what I missed . . . . because nothing changed in thought or learning . . . Just alot of "you don't understand".
 
/ Where does it stop? #113  
Jim Timber posted: "The bit about wheelies earlier went over some heads."

No Jim, I don't think it did. Saying that "wheelies" is proof of something is just not a logical point of debate. Why? Because given the right conditions . . any two axle tractor can do it. Being able to stste an operator can or could do a wheelie is an ego statement not a unique statement .

But I have to wonder why grown adults want to argue about hst vs gear value anyway. Nothing is accomplished . . . Unless the goal is too much time on a person's hands with nothing to do.

I'm out again . .

Got video of a HST on flat ground pulling one?
 
/ Where does it stop?
  • Thread Starter
#114  
Jim Timber posted: "The bit about wheelies earlier went over some heads."

No Jim, I don't think it did. Saying that "wheelies" is proof of something is just not a logical point of debate. Why? Because given the right conditions . . any two axle tractor can do it. Being able to stste an operator can or could do a wheelie is an ego statement not a unique statement .

But I have to wonder why grown adults want to argue about hst vs gear value anyway. Nothing is accomplished . . . Unless the goal is too much time on a person's hands with nothing to do.

I'm out again . .

It's called little man syndrome.

dr.ruth1.jpg

Rather than be secure in their decisions, some people feel the over whelming need to condone their decisions. Since they are insecure in their own decision, the only way they know how to condone it is by pointing out what they dont like about other's decisions, and usually without any facts to back them up.
 
/ Where does it stop? #115  
Got video of a HST on flat ground pulling one?

Jim, I'm quite pleased to say that I have zero videos of any tractors doing wheelies and I would not consider it a badge of honor to acquire any. I have a great deal to accomplish in the next 10 years of my life and wheelies is not part of those goals.

In my youth wheelies on motorcycles would have shortened tread life and my wallet cntents so I didn't do it . . and its still as silly an idea as it was way back then. Because a device can do something doesn't mean it should be done or that it is smart to do it.

The fact you asked tells me you don't understand my posts in this thread.
 
/ Where does it stop? #116  
So now you assume I climb all hills in high range? Yes you can climb any hill at a snails pace but I need to get done a good bit faster than a snail can get to the top.
That is what you led us to believe. The speed it's not a snail pace. It is a little slower than a gear, but not much. If I wanted to pull a load fast up a hill, I'm going to hitch it to my truck. My tractor lacks the HP in either a gear or HST to pull a load fast up the hill. Assuming the backhoe is removed and the load is 4,000 pounds. That puts the total weight at around 10,000 pounds. 32 hp isn't going to move that very fast regardless of the methods. I climbed the pond bank I posted a picture of earlier in medium. It climbed them every bit as fast as I wanted to go,
 
/ Where does it stop? #117  
I have to admit it got STUPID last night. AxleHub is right about this thread.
 
/ Where does it stop? #118  
It's called little man syndrome.

View attachment 461686

Rather than be secure in their decisions, some people feel the over whelming need to condone their decisions. Since they are insecure in their own decision, the only way they know how to condone it is by pointing out what they dont like about other's decisions, and usually without any facts to back them up.

I don't think that is the case here.

I feel there are differences between hydro and gear that can make one or the other a better choice depending on the jobs at hand.
 
/ Where does it stop? #119  
There's videos of all kinds of stupid acts done with geared tractors - lots of them from India. From doughnuts, to tractor pulls.

Looked on youtube and found one kid on a hst lawnmower with the throttle wide open on his 12hp diesel kubota that could barely pop the front end up.
 
/ Where does it stop? #120  
I don't think anybody is going to change their minds on this post. Guess we're all extremely happy with the tractor we have right now. Deezl smoke, darn you for starting this pi$$ing contest.��
I'll just say that I have two tractors about the same size, the HST does much better for loader work, and the gear unit does a better job plowing and discing. Both tractors do there jobs well, glad I have them.
 

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