Decarbonizing GDI Engines....

[3930dave]

It's not really plastic (like say styrene), the intakes are more of a structural fiber composite and that would work too. I just happen to own and operate a machine shop as well. You'd have to carefully drill each intake runner with a left hand helix drill so as not to get any swarf in the intake runners and then seal the holes carefully, probably with push in synthetic rubber plugs. Myself, I think I'll go the pre throttle body route. I'm sure the throttle plate and metering ports could use a 'spritz' as well.

If you can make a bullet proof oil pan from a fiber composite, why not. I think the valve covers on FCA vehicles and most Fords are 'plastic' as well. Detroit Diesel and Cummins Diesel have been using structural fiber pans for a few years now and overhead covers, problem with the pans are there is no impact resistance so a stone to the pan equals a catastropic failure. Plain bearing engines don't last long when starved for oil.

:thumbsup: I like your terminology better...... plastic was my lazy way of saying non-metallic.....

Material science...... good fun.... usually trade-offs involved. I suspect that you are familiar with rusty oil pans down your way too; while 6 months swimming in brine/year doesn't help, I think some of that is just low grade metal in use. Saw a composite intake fail on a GM 3.8 - any material can fail, when it cost "optimized" a bit too far....

Rgds, D.

 

[MossRoad]

.... Saw a composite intake fail on a GM 3.8 - ...

We had a 2000 Impala with a 3800 series II engine that started leaking antifreeze around where the plastic intake manifold seals to the heads. A mechanic friend told me it was fairly common for the manifold to warp, causing a leak at the gasket. For me, it was a 4 hour job start to finish. He said he'd charge 2 hours labor on the same job. :laughing:

 

[5030]

:thumbsup: I like your terminology better...... plastic was my lazy way of saying non-metallic.....

Material science...... good fun.... usually trade-offs involved. I suspect that you are familiar with rusty oil pans down your way too; while 6 months swimming in brine/year doesn't help, I think some of that is just low grade metal in use. Saw a composite intake fail on a GM 3.8 - any material can fail, when it cost "optimized" a bit too far....

Rgds, D.

We all know that if an automobile sold for what it was really worth, the asking price would be about half what the sticker price is. 'Optimized' is a good term for maximum profit with the least amount of cost... Why I won't buy new anymore even though my BIL is a high ranking exec at Fords (Mullaly and Fields were both at my neice's wedding... Neither here nor there. I bought my Focus off lease, 2014 loaded, sticker was 23, I paid 11-3. Still under factory warranty. Why take a hit. let the first buyer / leasee take the hit. A 50% ACV loss in 2 years is insane. I just added the Ford / Lincoln Premium Extended warranty that covers everything and anything for an additional 3 past the 3/36 factory warranty. Normally I wouldn't but this buggy is loaded with electronics that, I know, was made by the lowest bidder.....:drink:

They are all guilty of that, I don't care what the brand is or where it's made or the initial cost.


Like the GM ignition switch thing. You know they knew all along but ignored it. It's profit over responsibility and always has been.
Like this carbon intake deposit issue. You know full well they all know about it but prefer not to acknowledge it.

 

[5030]

All the OEM's, car truck, motorcycle, even boats all boast about weight savings using composite's and plastics over 'traditional' metallic parts. What they don't say is the plastic /composite stuff is cheaper to make so it maximizes profit.

I might have been born at night, but it wasn't last night.

 

[3930dave]

We had a 2000 Impala with a 3800 series II engine that started leaking antifreeze around where the plastic intake manifold seals to the heads. A mechanic friend told me it was fairly common for the manifold to warp, causing a leak at the gasket. For me, it was a 4 hour job start to finish. He said he'd charge 2 hours labor on the same job. :laughing:

Not bad Moss, as any decent pro-wrench is pretty quick. I'm not a pro, or quick.....first time in there are usually things to figure out..... a pro that's done a few knows the tricks - some of that speed comes from knowing what parts to try and save, and what to just destroy/replace.

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

All the OEM's, car truck, motorcycle, even boats all boast about weight savings using composite's and plastics over 'traditional' metallic parts. What they don't say is the plastic /composite stuff is cheaper to make so it maximizes profit.

I might have been born at night, but it wasn't last night.

Roger that.

I usually have a big issue with any technology that has a higher failure rate than what it replaces. Can't say that I've ever seen a metal intake fail.

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

We all know that if an automobile sold for what it was really worth, the asking price would be about half what the sticker price is. 'Optimized' is a good term for maximum profit with the least amount of cost... Why I won't buy new anymore even though my BIL is a high ranking exec at Fords (Mullaly and Fields were both at my neice's wedding... Neither here nor there. I bought my Focus off lease, 2014 loaded, sticker was 23, I paid 11-3. Still under factory warranty. Why take a hit. let the first buyer / leasee take the hit. A 50% ACV loss in 2 years is insane. I just added the Ford / Lincoln Premium Extended warranty that covers everything and anything for an additional 3 past the 3/36 factory warranty. Normally I wouldn't but this buggy is loaded with electronics that, I know, was made by the lowest bidder.....:drink:

They are all guilty of that, I don't care what the brand is or where it's made or the initial cost.


Like the GM ignition switch thing. You know they knew all along but ignored it. It's profit over responsibility and always has been.
Like this carbon intake deposit issue. You know full well they all know about it but prefer not to acknowledge it.

That's a good approach. Up here in salt-country, enough electronic modules rot out - even if the body holds up, plenty of vehicles get scrapped because it's too expensive to replace the modules.

I haven't had a recent look at extended warranties..... factory coverage on wiring harnesses can be poor.

If I was inclined to buy new (pigs might fly too), I'd find out what the dealer charges to decarbonize that GDI engine, and drop my offer accordingly.

Rgds, D.

 

[MossRoad]

Not bad Moss, as any decent pro-wrench is pretty quick. I'm not a pro, or quick.....first time in there are usually things to figure out..... a pro that's done a few knows the tricks - some of that speed comes from knowing what parts to try and save, and what to just destroy/replace.

Rgds, D.

Any time it takes me twice as long to do a job as he would do, I'm very happy. Any time I muff something up so bad I have to tow it across the street to his house, I hang my head in shame. :laughing:

 

[dadster4]

A major concern with cleaning carbon from intake valves is the damage that can be done to the turbo or catalytic converter. One bit of carbon hitting the turbo vane can damage it instantly. Unburned fuel and mixed cleaner can strip away lubrication meant for the turbo bearings, and also make the turbo and cat run much hotter than they are designed for. Highway driving and "jumping on it" every now and then is the best thing you can do to prevent carbon buildup.

 

[3930dave]

A major concern with cleaning carbon from intake valves is the damage that can be done to the turbo or catalytic converter. One bit of carbon hitting the turbo vane can damage it instantly. Unburned fuel and mixed cleaner can strip away lubrication meant for the turbo bearings, and also make the turbo and cat run much hotter than they are designed for. Highway driving and "jumping on it" every now and then is the best thing you can do to prevent carbon buildup.

If you go too heavy on Seafoam and the turbo seals are worn :shocked:....... I'd probably do a treatment just a little b4 doing an oil change anyway, but that's a good reason why....

Complexity often leads to more vulnerabilities. Doesn't take much to damage a turbo...... for a GDI + turbo, I 'd install a well designed catch can to hopefully siphon off the carbon, as doing ITUs on the highway will probably still throw (albeit smaller) chunks at the turbo. Too many tax collectors/mile around here..... I can't afford the tickets to Drive It Like I Stole It.....

It will be interesting to see how the new (2 injector/cylinder) GDI designs will be marketed. It's not easy to market a Solution when you don't want to acknowledge the Problem you just solved....

Rgds, D.