Need help idintifying motor mounts for an 8.3L Case built Cummins.

[4x4dually]

I'll try to keep this short and spare you all the lengthy details.

I'm new to TBN. I found it while looking for information on a Case built Cummins motor. I'm hoping someone here has the knowledge to help me out.

I bought an 8.3L Cummins out of a Case PX-240 Irrigation pump for a great price. I've replaced a sleeve, a piston, complete head work, etc. The motor runs great now and is destined for my GMC 7000 dump truck. The problem is, I can't seem to find a motor mount that fits the front of it. I'm wanting to use the 'horseshoe' type I call it (not sure what the industry name is). I've tried three different ones and even went through a truck salvage and can't find one that will fit it. I think the main issue is that the timing case on this motor is different than the on-road engine timing cases that Cummins puts on them. The ag motor from Case has proven to be a pain sometime as a bunch of the parts are different.

Anyway, the timing case on this motor is a P/N 87413806 "Transmission Housing"....which is misleading since it is on the front of the block and the transmission is on the back. Not sure what brilliant engineer came up with this. At a bare minimum, I'd like to find the bolt pattern spec that give me dimension.....but I'll probably end up welding up a custom one from a cardboard template...not what I'd really like to do.

To add insult to injury, the ECN on this motor will not show up in Cummins Quick-Serve due to it being manufactured by Case.

I was hoping some of the tractors guys/gals here could help me out. Does anyone know more info about this problem?

Both of these mounts below are said to be from 8.3L cummings motors, but neither are correct. Fairly certain the top one is not from an 8.3L. It looks more like a V8 mount.

The top one is no where near correct.

The bottom one gets close, but not enough clearance on the inside.

And a few pics of my progress for good measure.

I think the modified P7100 will have some fuel. :laughing:

8.3L Cummins - YouTube

Needless to say, the frame needed extended 12" after removing the 8.2L Detroit hunk of crap.

 

[4x4dually]

My apologies if this thread is in the wrong sub-forum. If figured since I'm having to build most of it myself it was fitting. LOL

Mod feel free to move to an appropriate place if desired.

 

[4x4dually]

Anyone? TTT

 

[Mysfyt]

I can get you the bolt pattern for the side bolt holes where your channel is bolted to in the picture, if it will do any good. This is where the industrial engines are usually mounted from. I'll do some digging tomorrow and see if I can find anything off the front.

 

[4x4dually]

Thanks. That would be super. I'm thinking about trying to machine enough off the one I have that is close and try to make it work. I just worried that if I machine off too much, it will sacrifice strength. I'll have to double the check the four holes first. I'm not 100% certain they line up either. Whomever designed this timing case didn't leave much room for a support like this....naturally, it's an ag engine and was mounted on the side like you said. I would have swapped covers when I had the engine torn down if I had realized this was going to be such an issue. I really didn't want to pull the cam so I let it slide.

 

[Mysfyt]

Look up Seaboard Marine. They have a page of all the 8.3 engine mounts. Tried to set this up to link it direct to the page but for some reason it won't work. Good luck!

 

[4x4dually]

I found the engine installation drawings....but it appears the front holes in those drawings are different than mine. Go figure. If there is a bastardized version of anything....it ends up on my farm. LOL

I'll look some more after lunch. Thanks for that! I think the drawings will help in other places too.

 

[Mysfyt]

If you can get me the year and/or the serial number, I have some contacts that can help with this.

 

[4x4dually]

If you can get me the year and/or the serial number, I have some contacts that can help with this.

I sure would greatly appreciate that, Sir. Thank you!

ESN: *46837230*
Model: 6TAA-690

Any dimensions on those holes would at least make it easier for me to burn a plate to make a mount if I can find one that will work.

 

[Deezl Smoke]

The engine should show up on any cummins tools as case cant sell parts for the engines. Case sends owners out to cummins for parts. It's a case/cummins politics thing.

I have 2 M931 6x6 military trucks with the 8.3L. You might try calling Boyce equipment in Utah and see what they have to say.

 

[4x4dually]

The engine should show up on any cummins tools as case cant sell parts for the engines. Case sends owners out to cummins for parts. It's a case/cummins politics thing.

I have 2 M931 6x6 military trucks with the 8.3L. You might try calling Boyce equipment in Utah and see what they have to say.

That ESN does not show up in Cummins anything (to anyone that I have talked to's knowledge). You can buy parts directly from Case from the link below...but they are three times what I can buy them for with some research from Cummins. My good friend Jeff Mumau (Mumau Diesel Service) has helped me tremendously on this and has sold me all the engine parts as he has crossed most of them to Cummins numbers. Every thing he has send me has been correct except the timing cover gasket....which further proves this timing case is some bastardized ag part. We also proved this when I had to go all the way to the engineering department at Haldex to get the correct air compressor. LOL

Exact parts for this engine can be purchased here....but it gives me no dimensional detail and the mounts they use here are the side mounts.

Case (PX24) - IRRIGATION POWER UNIT (1/3-) Parts Diagrams

 

[4x4dually]

The full thread of the engine build and all my woes can be found here. It is full of info as well as derails, bad jokes, and general bs.

8.3L Cummins Transplant - Competition Diesel.Com - Bringing The BEST Together

Not sure how this forum feels about linking to another forum, so if this is frowned upon, mods can delete or tell me and I can remove it. Also not sure what the "edit post" time limit is on this site yet. I haven't been here long. The other forum I'm on let's us edit our posts for 5 minutes or so then they lock.

 

[Deezl Smoke]

The irrigation application should not stop you from using other application parts. I have a combine with the 8.3L. Let me see how the front of the engine is mounted. I think it is using the yoke type mount you are looking at. If so, you can search ag wreckers for the yoke.

Have you called cummins NW in portland oregon?

 

[4x4dually]

The irrigation application should not stop you from using other application parts. I have a combine with the 8.3L. Let me see how the front of the engine is mounted. I think it is using the yoke type mount you are looking at. If so, you can search ag wreckers for the yoke.

Have you called cummins NW in portland oregon?

No, I haven't, I'm in OK. It is getting taxing to call folks and explain this whole 20 minute long story every time. LOL My buddy Chris Mayer (Mayer Farm Equipment, LLC) buys 8.3L's and puts them in combines. He send me the one in the picture that is close but won't work.

I've been researching this for over a month with no luck. That is why I thought I'd ask a new batch of folks on this forum. I was hoping someone here knew something the rest of us were missing. The only thing the irrigation application is stopping me from using is the normal yoke because they use some off-bred timing case that has different dimensions. This is the case I have next to a normal 8.3L timing cover gasket that is on 99% of the 8.3L motors.

I don't know. I'm at a loss. I'm trying everything I can to avoid building a mount from scratch out of plate.

 

[The Fred]

Seems like you'd be far better off mounting the engine the way it was intended from Cummins as that's how it was engineered.

Guessing it had side mounts?

I would not consider mounting the engine by the aluminum timing case.

Good luck, NICE project, Fred

 

[4x4dually]

Seems like you'd be far better off mounting the engine the way it was intended from Cummins as that's how it was engineered.

Guessing it had side mounts?

I would not consider mounting the engine by the aluminum timing case.

Good luck, NICE project, Fred

All the 8.3L in trucks are mounted with the yoke mount on the front aren't they? It is only the ag applications that mount it on the side. Every truck in the salvage that I ran-sacked had them mounted like that but the mounts just won't work for mine.

 

[The Fred]

It would be less trouble for the engine if you could bolt into the iron block and not the timing cover. I'm surely no expert but I do remember doing head gaskets many times on those older GM dudsel engines it was a poor design at best.

I just peeked at the Case PX24 parts and the front mounts are on the sides of the block into iron. That's where I'd be mounting it from even though it's a bunch more work.

Fred

 

[Renze]

Whomever designed this timing case didn't leave much room for a support like this....naturally, it's an ag engine and was mounted on the side like you said. I would have swapped covers when I had the engine torn down if I had realized this was going to be such an issue. I really didn't want to pull the cam so I let it slide.

I remember from Cummins OEM installation guides, that offroad engines had a heavy duty timing case, to support the weight of the heavier inline injection pump.
Apart from that, they could be had with a host of options, front sump for COE trucks (sump in front of the front axle) deep sump for 45 degree tilt angle, different turbo and manifold outlet positions, just to name a few.

 

[Renze]

Exact parts for this engine can be purchased here....but it gives me no dimensional detail and the mounts they use here are the side mounts.

Case (PX24) - IRRIGATION POWER UNIT (1/3-) Parts Diagrams

Hmm standard industrial engine mounts... just use half inch plate and weld it together.. We used to make them of 12mm plate which is allmost half inch.

 

[Renze]

Case sends owners out to cummins for parts. It's a case/cummins politics thing.

Actually its a Cummins/Fiat thing. When Case closed the old IH plant in Neuss am Rhein in 1996 and transferred the production of the Maxxum to Doncaster, UK, they had the engines built in the UK Cummins plant. Fiat had a failed engine development deal with Nissan and decided to buy the tooling from the Neuss plant to build these engines under license. the B and C series Cummins engines were jointly developed by Case/Cummins as CDC, Consolidated Diesel Corporation, in the early 80s

Now when New Holland bought Case, it was getting nasty. Fiat, who was building Cummins engines under their own name for their highway trucks (and using the Ford 6.6 and 7.5l ag engines for their tractors) thought they now owned the rights once owned by Case in the CDC deal between Case and Cummins and stopped paying royalties, Cummins thought not so. Cummins developed their 6.7 liter version and patented it in every possible way, for no other reason than to stop Fiat from copying their modifications to the original B series design. Result: Fiat (FPT, Fiat Power Train) engines in New Holland tractors have 104x132 bore x stroke, Cummins 6.7 engines have 106x124 bore x stroke.

Comments from Cummins employees on the FPT mod is that they simply ground away on diameter of the crankpins, in order to fit the bigger crank swing in the existing engine design, and therefor FPT marine engines are limited to 3000rpm because of harmonic vibrations. FPT however, says that they dont need the wear of high rpm because of their SCR (no EGR) emission technologies, they can simply put more oxygen in a single cylinder stroke without overstraining the engine components at racing performance.

Case is Fiat owned, and even Case MX parts are harder to get nowadays because that production line was sold to Argo, the Italian owner of the also Italian Landini brand, which now owns the production lines of the Doncaster IH plant and the rights to the historical name McCormick.... And Argo sold the St. Dizier (France) transmission plant to the Chinese YTO....

All in all, i'm not fond of buying any used Ford, Case, IH, David Brown or Steyr, any of the brands swallowed up by New Holland because their parts backup for older non-Fiat based models sucks. Delivery times are soaring, and if they are available, the price is jaw-dropping. And they send you the wrong part because a Case MX part has been renumbered from Case to New Holland, and is sometimes sourced from McCormick/Landini.