35x, 45x, 55x, 65x series trucks... enlighten me

[bdog]

I agree. It is hard to tow anything of size without going over 10k especially once you figure in the weight of the trailer itself.

As to the law it is a very common misconception. I myself thought that until about six months ago. I can't find the link but Texas has or used to have a "what class of license do I need" webpage where you could answer questions about the tow vehicle and trailer and I confirmed it there. Also a lot of the uhaul/ Penske type places run under this "loophole" their big moving trucks they rent are just under 26k and they hook the tow dollies on the back for towing cars.

 

[Dadnatron]

So, I'm beginning to understand this, but I have a few more questions.

Where would I find out whether 'personal' use vs 'commercial' use matters? I've looked through both Kentucky and Indiana's laws and don't see anything describing a difference (which would lead me to believe that there are no exceptions) but I'm not sure I am looking in the correct place. If there is a 'personal use' exception, is this typically 'State by State'? ie if I drive across the line, am I then in potential fine territory? Or does this provision typically cross state boundaries?

And finally, given all the 'legality' of the situation... does anyone know of a link that will help me insure that the combination of truck and trailer are safe enough to drive? Something which basically says "If you are towing X amount of weight with Y Trailer configuration, the recommendations is to be pulling it with Z type/class truck? I can get a CDL... that really doesn't bother me, but I want to insure that I am safe regardless of the little card in my back pocket.

Where can I go to learn more about towing safely?
And if I get a CDL... what are the provisions for keeping it, ie how long does it typically last and what is required to have it renewed?

 

[jb1390]

So, I'm beginning to understand this, but I have a few more questions.

Where would I find out whether 'personal' use vs 'commercial' use matters? I've looked through both Kentucky and Indiana's laws and don't see anything describing a difference (which would lead me to believe that there are no exceptions) but I'm not sure I am looking in the correct place. If there is a 'personal use' exception, is this typically 'State by State'? ie if I drive across the line, am I then in potential fine territory? Or does this provision typically cross state boundaries?

And finally, given all the 'legality' of the situation... does anyone know of a link that will help me insure that the combination of truck and trailer are safe enough to drive? Something which basically says "If you are towing X amount of weight with Y Trailer configuration, the recommendations is to be pulling it with Z type/class truck? I can get a CDL... that really doesn't bother me, but I want to insure that I am safe regardless of the little card in my back pocket.

Where can I go to learn more about towing safely?
And if I get a CDL... what are the provisions for keeping it, ie how long does it typically last and what is required to have it renewed?

Each truck will have a GCWR ( gross combined weight rating), as well as a GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating), and tow rating for a particular configuration. It's not quite as simple as a particular " class " of truck, since engine, frame, and brake design all factor in to the capability of the truck. Modern diesel pickups are far more capable than they were 20 years ago. I believe my 07 duramax single wheel is rated around 22k combined. Some of the new 350/3500 trucks are even higher.

FWIW, the tow/haul mode on my 07 truck is significantly better than my 02 duramax - I lost trailer brakes once towing a 14k pound trailer and had no trouble stopping the load with tow/haul and just the truck brakes.

Do you have a sense for how much the truck would be towing a load of material vs towing the machine? Would a stake body dump work for you? A dump trailer will hold far more than the truck alone, both in volume and weight, but is less maneuverable, and would likely cost more.

Also fwiw, I have a friend with a 16' bumper pull dump trailer. It's nice to tow ( though my deckover gn is better), but won't dump past 30 degrees. It's hard to unload wood, forget about sticky topsoil. Make sure you check that on a big dump trailer if you go that route, don't just accept that it dumps.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

Not if its a boat, RV, or for personal use.

Chris

Boat and rv is completely irrelevant but thanks for mentioning it anyways. Your state may be different but when I was going through the process Pennsylvania does not differentiate between license classes. If you get a class a or class b it's a cdl.

Bdog and you guys are correct, I was trying to make a distinction with the weights by saying ...99 so that it wasn't over.


I will say if you are towing a 12k load with a 6k trailer, and it's setup correctly, ie, 20-25% tongue weight, you are going to want a drw truck. Can you get a dual tandem trailer and a 3/4 ton truck and put the load over the trailer axles, you bet. But don't expect to be in control of it in a panic stop if the trailer brakes aren't setup well.

 

[downslope]

...I will say if you are towing a 12k load with a 6k trailer, and it's setup correctly, ie, 20-25% tongue weight, you are going to want a drw truck. Can you get a dual tandem trailer and a 3/4 ton truck and put the load over the trailer axles, you bet. But don't expect to be in control of it in a panic stop if the trailer brakes aren't setup well.

When you say 20-25% tongue weight, that is for a GN, right? A receiver hitch should only need 10-15% on the ball to tow safely, is that correct? In which case a SRW 350/3500 should be OK as long as it has proper rated hitch components. But I agree, if your trailer brakes are deficient you better be hooked to a heavy truck, and even then you could be looking for trouble.

 

[bdog]

So, I'm beginning to understand this, but I have a few more questions.

Where would I find out whether 'personal' use vs 'commercial' use matters? I've looked through both Kentucky and Indiana's laws and don't see anything describing a difference (which would lead me to believe that there are no exceptions) but I'm not sure I am looking in the correct place. If there is a 'personal use' exception, is this typically 'State by State'? ie if I drive across the line, am I then in potential fine territory? Or does this provision typically cross state boundaries?


And if I get a CDL... what are the provisions for keeping it, ie how long does it typically last and what is required to have it renewed?

Most states have exemptions for things like RV's, farmers, volunteer fireman driving fire trucks, etc. should be able to find it on your home states DMV web page. I have no idea how this works when you cross state lines I have never really studied he exemptions much as they don't apply to me.

CDL's are usually good for around five years and cost $60 or so for the five years. To renew you just pay the fee. You do have to maintain a DOT medical card which you get from a certified Doctor who gives you a DOT physical stating your are fit to drive a commercial vehicle. The physicals are usually around $100 and they are good anywhere from 6 months to 2 years depending on your health. These medical cards are linked to the DMV now and if it expires they pull your license. You also have to be part of a drug testing consortium. I pay $150 a year for this. They give me an initial test then I am in a pool with other CDL drivers and I get randomly selected for drug tests and have to take them from time to time. If you are a CDL driver working for a company as a driver the company pays for this testing.

Other bad things of CDL's are you can no longer take defensive driving for tickets even in your personal car. The CDL's are federally mandated and you can't get out of tickets doing deferred or defensive like you ca. with a regular license. The limit for DWI in a CMV is .04 instead of .08.

Now here is where it becomes a major pain. Having a CDL and driving for a company is pretty simple. If you want to have a CDL and drive your own commercial vehicle for business purposes you need your own DOT number, commercial insurance, driver training program, safety audits. maintainence program, log book record keeping, UCR, IFTA and IRP if crossing state lines, commercial inspections on your vehicles and trailers, etc. It is a major hassle and not cheap - the insurance especially. You don't simply just need a CDL and then you are able to drive whatever you want. There is a LOT more that goes along with it unless you are an employee driving someone else's truck that deals with all the red tape.

 

[downslope]

...
Now here is where it becomes a major pain. Having a CDL and driving for a company is pretty simple. If you want to have a CDL and drive your own commercial vehicle for business purposes you need your own DOT number, commercial insurance, driver training program, safety audits. maintainence program, log book record keeping, UCR, IFTA and IRP if crossing state lines, commercial inspections on your vehicles and trailers, etc. It is a major hassle and not cheap - the insurance especially. You don't simply just need a CDL and then you are able to drive whatever you want. There is a LOT more that goes along with it unless you are an employee driving someone else's truck that deals with all the red tape.

Also, keep in mind that the requirement for DOT number registration starts at 10,001 lbs not 26,001, so you need the DOT# even without CDL. DOT number is always required for interstate and now more than half the states are also requiring for intrastate. In NY once you put a trailer of modest size behind a pickup for commercial or farm use they want to see the number. I checked and KY and IN are on the list requiring DOT for intrastate; I believe it goes by the state where the vehicle is registered or "domiciled". https://cms.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration/do-i-need-usdot-number#states If the truck is 10K or less you can use a magnetic sign and remove it when trailerless.

You might get away pulling a boat or rv if it's your own property and not for business, but they are cracking down more and more on this stuff.

 

[downslope]

...The limit for DWI in a CMV is .04 instead of .08...

When you're not in a CMV ie. personal car, do they still hold you to .04, or is that only when you're operating an actual CMV?

 

[bdog]

You will hear people say it both ways but my research points to .08 in non CMV and .04 in CMV. My dually is over 10k by itself and is my daily driver so I am at .04.

 

[aczlan]

The 26k truck+10k trailer vs 26k truck+trailer combination (with a trailer that weighs over 10k) depends on your home state.
Federal rules are truck over 26,001# with a trailer over 10,001# = CDL.
NY says that a CDL is required for any truck and trailer combination where the truck GVWR and the trailer GVWR combined are equal to or greater than 26,001# (for vehicles that are registered in NY).
So, (for vehicles registered in NY) a CDL is required to drive a truck that has a GVWR of 25,002# with a trailer that has a GVWR of 1000#.

Aaron Z