3 phase converter ok ?

[LD1]

How often do you plan on using it? 32a is alot of power.

If plans to use very frequently, my want to re-consider 3ph from the power company. Over the long haul, the extra cost from the inefficiency of converting single phase may be more.

Have you even contacted the power company? My interpretation of what you said earlier is that you have not because you assume it's gonna be expensive. But you cannot make an educated decision without first finding out for sure.

Second, have you inquired if you can get the printer in a single phase version?

Either of those would be a better solution if the plan is to use it more than just occasionally, IMO

 

[Tomtint]

How often do you plan on using it? 32a is alot of power.

If plans to use very frequently, my want to re-consider 3ph from the power company. Over the long haul, the extra cost from the inefficiency of converting single phase may be more.

Have you even contacted the power company? My interpretation of what you said earlier is that you have not because you assume it's gonna be expensive. But you cannot make an educated decision without first finding out for sure.

Second, have you inquired if you can get the printer in a single phase version?

Either of those would be a better solution if the plan is to use it more than just occasionally, IMO

We are more than 1500 feet to run another leg for true 3 phase. I know because when I built the house, I had to trench and build the underground for our house. It's a bit over 1500 from our transformer and another 300 feet to the house.. It's also a private line and only powers my property. We would be using this almost everyday. If it won't run off a converter, I may have to look at a different machine, .. And I really don't want to.

 

[LD1]

We are more than 1500 feet to run another leg for true 3 phase. I know because when I built the house, I had to trench and build the underground for our house. It's a bit over 1500 from our transformer and another 300 feet to the house.. It's also a private line and only powers my property. We would be using this almost everyday. If it won't run off a converter, I may have to look at a different machine, .. And I really don't want to.

Semantics, but you would need TWO more legs for 3 phase.

Power companies are different everywhere. Around here, it dont cost anything to get power to a meter. But you pay for and do (or contract) everything on your side of the meter.

I would still try to get ahold of the MFG just to inquire what they recommend. And will warrant. Regardless of what anyone of us on the internet say, I wouldnt do anything that would void a warranty. Which may indeed push you to find a single phase machine.

 

[CreekyB]

Semantics, but you would need TWO more legs for 3 phase.

Power companies are different everywhere. Around here, it dont cost anything to get power to a meter. But you pay for and do (or contract) everything on your side of the meter.

I would still try to get ahold of the MFG just to inquire what they recommend. And will warrant. Regardless of what anyone of us on the internet say, I wouldnt do anything that would void a warranty. Which may indeed push you to find a single phase machine.

Most places around here are no cost to the meter loop, but you pay for the meter loop. Unless it is 3 phase, and there is no 3 phase available. Then you pay 100% of the cost to implement 3 phase.

We looked into getting 3 phase to a friends shop. Right at 125K$ to run the 3p almost 1/4 of a mile to his shop. Needless to say he bought single phase motors for what could be had and a converter for the lathe and mill.

 

[City Farmer]

I've been using a 25hp PhaseCraft RPC on a 50amp breaker for the last year or so. It was cheap and easy to install. It was about as plug & play as you can get. My biggest motor is a 10hp Pacemaker lathe. It runs it just fine. When I get the barn up, I'll feed it with 125amps and branch it into a 3phase service and hard pipe all my machines. The breaker is to small but I've never tripped it on start up or while using a machine. I push them pretty hard sometimes. It's a pain to run one machine at a time but it keeps me working.

 

[the old grind]

Digital devices and our 3-PH motors are apples and oranges where power needs (quality) are at issue, and I'm sure most with experience (esp CNC) will agree. Y'know, PP makes 'power conditioners' for those with digital gear and poor quality 3-PH service, and shops buy/use them for 'clean' power.

New PT330 might be <$4k. There's a reason they don't go cheap if used & working. (service IS tops, btw)

Mention (or forward) this model to your printer's maker for comment.

http://www.phasetechnologies.com/phaseperfect/files/pt330specs.pdf

A few days left to bid on this one ... time enuf to receive a response from 'printco'.

phase perfect pt 33 | eBay

No matter what deal a poco gives us to install 3PH, billing might be by time of day or peak usage during a brief period (even one day during a week) that's treated as though an average. Expect to hear about 'power factor' when asking why 3 PH $$/kW doesn't parallel 1PH usage/cost if you 'go there'.

tomtint, hate to load you down with 'homework', but please visit other forums (fora?) where digital phase conversion is discussed for a better context/perspective on comments here. Several of us are also members at 'PracticalMachinist'. (not tellin' whom ...)

Transformers, Phase Converters and VFD

 

[City Farmer]

I totally missed what the OP said in post #7. There were a few PP units on another site for $2500 each a few days ago.

Digital devices and our 3-PH motors are apples and oranges where power needs (quality) are at issue, and I'm sure most with experience (esp CNC) will agree. Y'know, PP makes 'power conditioners' for those with digital gear and poor quality 3-PH service, and shops buy/use them for 'clean' power.

New PT330 might be <$4k. There's a reason they don't go cheap if used & working. (service IS tops, btw)

Mention (or forward) this model to your printer's maker for comment.

http://www.phasetechnologies.com/phaseperfect/files/pt330specs.pdf

A few days left to bid on this one ... time enuf to receive a response from 'printco'.

phase perfect pt 33 | eBay

No matter what deal a poco gives us to install 3PH, billing might be by time of day or peak usage during a brief period (even one day during a week) that's treated as though an average. Expect to hear about 'power factor' when asking why 3 PH $$/kW doesn't parallel 1PH usage/cost if you 'go there'.

tomtint, hate to load you down with 'homework', but please visit other forums (fora?) where digital phase conversion is discussed for a better context/perspective on comments here. Several of us are also members at 'PracticalMachinist'. (not tellin' whom ...)

Transformers, Phase Converters and VFD

 

[Redneck in training]

If you want to shop around here is another: Phase Converters | Power Transformers | Power Accessories | American Rotary

 

[Tomtint]

This is what they have suggested.

 

[LD1]

Sounds like their printer ain't picky if they are suggesting a rotary.

Still probably looking at $1500-$2000 or more. I have never priced one that big. And wouldn't try to make one out of a static + motor, cause keeping voltage +/- 5% is gonna be hard on a DIY.

 

[Mendonsy]

That Ronk phase converter is definitely expensive compared to some others, but if that is what the printer company wants you will probably have to use it. It certainly appears to be a quality system. There are other less expensive setups that would probably work, but those could lead to warranty problems with the printer.

 

[prichard]

Ronk was at one time the big name in phase converters.

 

[the old grind]

I suggest that if any RPC is recommended the printer likely has a degree of 'power conditioning' built in. (& that's a good thing)

If you build an RPC (w/cheap 3PH motor from CL or EB) I strongly recommend PhaseCraft for the control panel. Their setup help and service after sale are among the best out there. Lots to read here at the bottom of the page. (Not just pitch)

(20 hp, not 2hp) 2� HP Manual Start Rotary Phase Converter Control Panel | eBay

Some general tidbits about phase conversion:
- Phase Perfect doesn't require an idler but it isn't exactly silent. (not too bad, tho')
- an RPC's idler/motor typically runs 'louder' than if used as a load motor with 3PH from the pole.
- At 20hp rating, consider building a 'doghouse' for an RPC (often outside the shop/office) as noise may drown out that of what's running on it. (not so good)

btw. Counting on seeing pics of the printer/output someday. (3-D printer, no?)

 

[Tomtint]

I suggest that if any RPC is recommended the printer likely has a degree of 'power conditioning' built in. (& that's a good thing)

If you build an RPC (w/cheap 3PH motor from CL or EB) I strongly recommend PhaseCraft for the control panel. Their setup help and service after sale are among the best out there. Lots to read here at the bottom of the page. (Not just pitch)

(20 hp, not 2hp) 2� HP Manual Start Rotary Phase Converter Control Panel | eBay

Some general tidbits about phase conversion:
- Phase Perfect doesn't require an idler but it isn't exactly silent. (not too bad, tho')
- an RPC's idler/motor typically runs 'louder' than if used as a load motor with 3PH from the pole.
- At 20hp rating, consider building a 'doghouse' for an RPC (often outside the shop/office) as noise may drown out that of what's running on it. (not so good)

btw. Counting on seeing pics of the printer/output someday. (3-D printer, no?)

No, not a 3D. It's a UV printer, for printing on both roll and rigid media.

 

[dickfoster]

I'm not particularly knowledgable about electricity. Here is what I have and looking to do. I have a 200 amp service now and I'm looking at a piece of equipment that requires 3phase. Running 3 to my home would be very ..very expensive, likely 50k +\-. One of the electricians I spoke with said a phase converter may be the answer. He said I needed the motor size and electric requirements to order the correct size converter. My question is weather there are potential drawbacks to using a converter ? ..Any electricians on TBN ?

You can actually do this with a spare 3ph motor. A friend of mine ran a small machine shop out of his home garage that way for years. You do have to give the converter motor a spin sometimes to start it.
You wire 220 to the motor, which is actually two phase, then wire the 3ph rotor or stator windings to the 3ph motor in your machine. I forgot exactly how it's wired off the top of my head but it's simple and you should be able to find it online.

 

[LD1]

You can actually do this with a spare 3ph motor. A friend of mine ran a small machine shop out of his home garage that way for years. You do have to give the converter motor a spin sometimes to start it.
You wire 220 to the motor, which is actually two phase, then wire the 3ph rotor or stator windings to the 3ph motor in your machine. I forgot exactly how it's wired off the top of my head but it's simple and you should be able to find it online.

Thats what a rotary phase convertor does.

A 3PH motor WILL run on just two legs of 240v power. But the problem is the legs are 180 degrees apart, so you have a locked rotor as it dont know which way to run. Thus you need to give it a jump start. Many ways to do that, some use a rope wrapped around the shaft and give it a pull, then turn power on, others use a 110v pony motor on a slide with a belt, etc.

Another way to start them is with capacitors. Which is basically what a static convertor is.

The Problem is, since you are only supplying two legs out of 3, you are only making 2/3 the power. So if your goal is to run a 10 HP load, you need a 15HP spare/idler motor to do that......or just understand that your 10HP motor can only make 6.6 HP.

The other issue becomes voltage balance. You will have two legs of 240v, but the third leg that gets generated will be less. Maybe like 200v. Voltage can be balanced out to some extent with some run capacitors, but neither of these are usually an issue with a factory-made RPC.

Because if you purchase a factory made convertor, they take these things into account already. If they are selling a 10HP convertor, they have already upsized the pony motor to ~15HP. But instead of calling it a 15HP convertor as the pony motor is sized, they label it as what size motor you can run off of it.

And another trick they do to better balance the voltage is to increase teh number of windings on that 3rd (generated) leg by 10-15% so the voltage you generate is closer to the two supplied legs.

 

[dickfoster]

Thats what a rotary phase convertor does.

A 3PH motor WILL run on just two legs of 240v power. But the problem is the legs are 180 degrees apart, so you have a locked rotor as it dont know which way to run. Thus you need to give it a jump start. Many ways to do that, some use a rope wrapped around the shaft and give it a pull, then turn power on, others use a 110v pony motor on a slide with a belt, etc.

Another way to start them is with capacitors. Which is basically what a static convertor is.

The Problem is, since you are only supplying two legs out of 3, you are only making 2/3 the power. So if your goal is to run a 10 HP load, you need a 15HP spare/idler motor to do that......or just understand that your 10HP motor can only make 6.6 HP.

The other issue becomes voltage balance. You will have two legs of 240v, but the third leg that gets generated will be less. Maybe like 200v. Voltage can be balanced out to some extent with some run capacitors, but neither of these are usually an issue with a factory-made RPC.

Because if you purchase a factory made convertor, they take these things into account already. If they are selling a 10HP convertor, they have already upsized the pony motor to ~15HP. But instead of calling it a 15HP convertor as the pony motor is sized, they label it as what size motor you can run off of it.

And another trick they do to better balance the voltage is to increase teh number of windings on that 3rd (generated) leg by 10-15% so the voltage you generate is closer to the two supplied legs.

Figured as much. Hopefully someday they will start wiring everything with 3Ph. It's more efficient and they keep talking about saving energy so much. Motors are cheaper and you don't need the start run capacitors and junk. There's 3 on the pole already so they just need to start installing 3ph transformers and service wiring instead of playing the balancing game they do.

 

[prichard]

Three phase doesn't really make much sense in a residence. Need a lot of motor loads to gain any benefit.

It's probably easier for the power company to balance than hope residences are balanced.

 

[dickfoster]

Three phase doesn't really make much sense in a residence. Need a lot of motor loads top gain any benefit.

It's probably easier for the power company to balance than hope residences are balanced.

Well add em up. Two AC units, two well pumps, a table saw, drill press, air compressor and that's just the larger home motors. Add in the fridge and freezer and smaller stuff and it would save some bucks running all that stuff over the long run. Back in the day AC wasn't so common and about all they worried about were lights really. Now the lighting loads have dropped off while the motor loads have started to mount up.

 

[Mendonsy]

Well add em up. Two AC units, two well pumps, a table saw, drill press, air compressor and that's just the larger home motors. Add in the fridge and freezer and smaller stuff and it would save some bucks running all that stuff over the long run. Back in the day AC wasn't so common and about all they worried about were lights really. Now the lighting loads have dropped off while the motor loads have started to mount up.

I think it has a lot more to do with economics. As long as the power companies can charge outrageous rates for three phase they will charge them.