Help selecting a Post Driver

[byrd]

I've recently had a quote provided for the installation of about 150 4x4 fence posts. After receiving the quote and doing a little research and pricing, I've learned that I can purchase a post driver for my tractor for about the same cost as the price of labor that I was given. Knowing that I have another 200 or so posts to do after the initial bunch and I'm sure many more over the years to come, a post driver seems like a reasonable investment. As I've been looking, I've been primarily considering the Shaver HD-8 or HD-10. For new drivers, it looks like Kencove has some of the best prices.

I have a Kubota L4400DT (2009). According to tractordata.com the L4400 hydraulic system provides 10.6 gal/min (gear) and 11.9 gal/min (hydro). I'm not sure which is the critical number to consider for a post driver, but I think either is close enough that even the HD-10 should work pretty well.

I'm in south eastern VA on roughly 26 acres, about 9 of which is fenced with 3 board fencing for horses. For the most part, our soil is pretty loamy; a little clay heavy in a few areas, but nothing too bad. We don't have any rocks, gravel, or hard pan.

I had a few questions that I was hoping those with experience with post drivers could help with:

1) Based on my soil type, is it even worth considering an HD-10? I primarily use 4x4s, but I use 6x6s at my corners and as gate posts.
2) Has anyone here ever put a Shaver HD-10 on a Kubota L4400? Is it possible? The L4400 is a Cat I tractor. The Shaver manual says the HD-10 is for Cat II and III tractors.
3) If anyone has used an HD-8 or HD-10 on a Kubota L4400 or similar can you provide any insight on where the return should be plumbed to? I have one rear remote that I can use for the supply side.
4) Since I have pretty easy soil, would it be worth considering the HD-8 with hydraulic adjustments over the HD-10 manual adjust? I'm not sure I can swing the cost of the HD-10 with hydraulic adjust and am not quite convinced that I need the heavier driver.

Thanks in advance for the help!

 

[oldnslo]

I believe Danuser in Missouri makes a driver that is quick hitch compatable for your FEL and only needs around 10 GPM to operate. Never used one myself but have seen a couple in use here in the midwest. They have a clamp so that you can pick the post up and also a tilt function for when the tractor is on a side slope and you want to drive the post vertical. No clue on the cost Vs Shaver.

Post Driver | Fence Post Driver | Danuser

 

[r porter]

even with the best of soil the secret it to wait till spring after the last frost. you can drive about anything then. driving 50 posts before lunch makes things go fast.

i have made a pilot hole and drove 12 in telephone pole stubs for corners. [with a shaver 8] mine has the manual adj and i dont think the hyd will be worth it. mine will drive a 6x6 just as fast as a 4x4 in the spring.

this was with an old farmall too. so the gallons per min aint as important as you think. all it has to do is raise the ram and gravity takes over from there.

i once drove a 21 foot light pole with it.

i bolted a 3 ft stub on the side and wacked it till i broke off the stub. it was over 3 ft deep so i quit.

 

[RickB]

Not sure why one could not put a Cat 1 hitch crossbar on an HD10 and go. An 8 would certainly fit your tractor and probably drive posts in your soil, especially in spring. A 10 will have a LOT more wallop. Hydraulic flow only relates to how fast the hammer RAISES. 10 GPM is fine for either model Shaver. If you can get an HD10 pinned to your Kubota, that is what I would do.

 

[EddieWalker]

I致e recently had a quote provided for the installation of about 150 4x4 fence posts.

Why would you use 4x4's for fence posts? Nothing twists or bends more then modern day treated 4x4's. Even 4x6's bend. Why not use round treated posts?

 

[JimRB]

I used an old Shaver post driver on my JD 870. That is a small 28 hp tractor. It worked fine. As others have mentioned it worked fine once we had rain. Posts bounced on the Georgia clay when it had not rained in three months. Square 4x4 posts went in pretty fast after some rain.

 

[byrd]

Why would you use 4x4's for fence posts? Nothing twists or bends more then modern day treated 4x4's. Even 4x6's bend. Why not use round treated posts?

Because I already have a mile, maybe two, worth of 3 board fencing that was done by a previous owner using 4x4 posts. I'd like to stay consistent with what is already there. I've put another 80 to 100 in over the past year, and I can only think of one that really stands out as having bowed as the post dried. The bending posts is much less of a bother than leaning posts caused by the previous owner's poor tamping ability. The boards keep that post fairly straight, although I agree that it is not always the case.

 

[byrd]

I believe Danuser in Missouri makes a driver that is quick hitch compatable for your FEL and only needs around 10 GPM to operate. Never used one myself but have seen a couple in use here in the midwest. They have a clamp so that you can pick the post up and also a tilt function for when the tractor is on a side slope and you want to drive the post vertical. No clue on the cost Vs Shaver.

I took a look at these. You ca get a skid steer adapter for the Shaver as well. Unfortunately, I only have lift and tilt control on my FEL, so I would have to plumb another supply and return line up front. On the back end I already have a rear remote that I can hold open as a supply and I would only need to route a return line. Although I'm not sure how best to route the return on my Kubota just yet, so that might be just as much work.

 

[byrd]

Not sure why one could not put a Cat 1 hitch crossbar on an HD10 and go. An 8 would certainly fit your tractor and probably drive posts in your soil, especially in spring. A 10 will have a LOT more wallop. Hydraulic flow only relates to how fast the hammer RAISES. 10 GPM is fine for either model Shaver. If you can get an HD10 pinned to your Kubota, that is what I would do.

Yeah. I just found that Kencove sells a "Universal 3-Point Mounting Bracket". It comes with Cat I and Cat II pins. It's a wide bracket so the pins would need to get mounted inward, but that's no biggie. They also sell the HD-8 and HD-10 as "complete" drivers with the mounting bracket.

Kencove has the HD-10 with hydro adjust and mounting bracket listed at just under $4K. It seems reasonable from what snooping around the net that I've done so far. I've looked for used drivers as well, but the only one I've seen within a 2 hour drive is a manual adjust HD-10 that looks like it's been chained to a tree for a few years and the owner wants $3K for it.

 

[byrd]

Makes sense about the 4x4 posts.

Have you talked to any fence builders in your area to see what they would charge to come and pound the posts in for you? If that's all they are doing, it's probably a day job for them.

I did... I got a quote for about $23 (labor) per post for about 150 posts (about $3450 total labor). I've easily put in well over a few hundred posts before, so I don't mind doing the work myself. However, in the past year or so I've started having some lower back issues, noting serious (yet) if I'm kind to my back, so I've started looking into other options. Tamping posts all day with a steal tamping rod isn't really in the cards for me anymore. That's why I started looking at other options.

After I got the quote, I figured that there's got to be a better way to invest that $3450. I have one small paddock to fence in the immediate future (the one I got quoted). Later, we plan subdivide two larger pastures into smaller paddocks, then there are a couple aisle ways to paddocks that the wife would like added, as well as some repair work on a partially fenced paddock. Soooo... I think I have the future work to make me feel like the purchase would be justified... even if I find a better quote on the immediate work that I need to do.

 

[powerscol]

While I have not personally driven any posts (I use the post hole digger and tamper) I have been around a lot of post/fence work. One contractor always cut points on his posts. He had a jig that set on two saw horses that had the angles cut on the end. He dropped the post on and then used a small electric chain saw to trim the corners. Jig worked for square and round posts. If there were rocks, he had steel tips. he got them from somewhere, but only used if there was a problem.

Good luck as it looks like your wonderful wife has plans for you.

One question - what equipment did the contractor have to drive the posts?

 

[byrd]

While I have not personally driven any posts (I use the post hole digger and tamper) I have been around a lot of post/fence work. One contractor always cut points on his posts. He had a jig that set on two saw horses that had the angles cut on the end. He dropped the post on and then used a small electric chain saw to trim the corners. Jig worked for square and round posts. If there were rocks, he had steel tips. he got them from somewhere, but only used if there was a problem.

Good luck as it looks like your wonderful wife has plans for you.

One question - what equipment did the contractor have to drive the posts?

I've always used a manual post hole digger or a PTO auger on my tractor (which I borrow from a neighbor) as well. As far as I'm aware, the contractor that I spoke with doesn't use a post driver. They use a PTO auger and powered hand auger, which is definitely more labor intensive. So far, from my inquiries to friends for fencing contractor recommendations, no one has mentioned anyone that uses a post driver. That's not to say that there aren't any, they just don't seem to be as common as I would have thought.

 

[byrd]

powerscol's comment brought another question to mind...

Can a post driver set posts level enough and with enough accuracy to do a good three board fence? It seems that a lot of folks use drivers where high tensile wire will be used. In those cases, post spacing and the "plumbness" of the driven post aren't quite as important.

 

[Birdhunter1]

My dad bought a used Shaver HD8 back in the 70's and put up thousands of posts with it. Dad sold it a few years ago to a vineyard who we are friends with and I've recently borrowed it to slam some posts in. Last week the ground was dry and hard and though it took a while I put in a 6x8, three 6x6 and two 4x4 posts building corner structures, I sharpened a point on the posts (except the 4x4's) eyeball angles with a chainsaw. Over the weekend we had 6" of rain and yesterday I put in a 6x8 and 2 6x6 posts. Yesterday's job took me about 15 minutes total, they are all 3' deep in clay coil and solid as can be, no sharpening required.

This was done without springs on the driver and depended solely on the weight of the driver to set them. The old springs were broken and the new ones aren't here yet, the driver is manual adjust for plumb and it will drive a post as plumb as you set it. I am running it with a 1989 Ford 3910.

 

[ishiboo]

I have a Shaver HD10, and used it initially on my Kubota L3650 which is a much smaller tractor with lower flow. It worked awesome on the L3650, no problem. The driver does not use hydraulics to pound a post, just to lift the hammer. So in theory the lower flow will just increase the time by a little bit to drive a post. It was already faster than I needed it to be.

Go for it. You won't be disappointed.

Put it on the 3-point. Use your front loader and forks for carrying the posts.

 

[ishiboo]

Also, the 3-point mount may have changed over the years but mine used two "stubs" that had Cat 2 ends. It was as simple as removing them and sliding a common drawbar in the existing opening, and tightening the existing bolts to hold it in place.

I have clay/sand as well, and the HD10 does a great job... but I wouldn't go to an 8.

 

[byrd]

I have a Shaver HD10, and used it initially on my Kubota L3650 which is a much smaller tractor with lower flow. It worked awesome on the L3650, no problem. The driver does not use hydraulics to pound a post, just to lift the hammer. So in theory the lower flow will just increase the time by a little bit to drive a post. It was already faster than I needed it to be.

Go for it. You won't be disappointed.

Put it on the 3-point. Use your front loader and forks for carrying the posts.

That's for your input ishiboo! I was starting to get a little nervous regarding the HD-10. I double checked the specs listed at TractorData.com with the actual manual for my L4400DT, and the numbers don't agree with one another. TractorData.com lists the pump capacity at 11.9 gal/min, but the manual only lists it at 7.8 gal/min. I know that the lower flow will simple increase the time it takes to lift the driver, but I was getting a bit worried that dropping 4 gal/min might be a problem. We don't have the exact same model Kubota, but it's close enough that I feel pretty good about it. I won't be using it professionally so a little more time won't kill me. ...And since I'll be using it to install 3 board fencing which I'll want to be fairly straight and plumb, I assume that I'll be a bit more **** retentive and won't be driving the posts at an extremely high rate anyway.

While I think the HD-8 would probably work for me, the $780 difference between the HD-8H and HD-10H probably won't seem like much in the years to come. I can't say that I can remember a single time I've ever regretted opting for the more powerful option when purchasing machinery, tools, implements, etc.

Two questions for you ishiboo... Where did you plumb the return for the HD-10 to your L3650? Did you plumb it to the fill port on the transmission? That seems to be the most straight forward, easiest to access option on my L4400. Where you using a rear remote as the supply for your HD-10? I have a single rear remote that I don't typically use. I'm planning on hooking the supply of the HD-10 to one side of the rear remote and just bungee the lever into position while it's in use.

 

[ishiboo]

That's for your input ishiboo! I was starting to get a little nervous regarding the HD-10. I double checked the specs listed at TractorData.com with the actual manual for my L4400DT, and the numbers don't agree with one another. TractorData.com lists the pump capacity at 11.9 gal/min, but the manual only lists it at 7.8 gal/min. I know that the lower flow will simple increase the time it takes to lift the driver, but I was getting a bit worried that dropping 4 gal/min might be a problem. We don't have the exact same model Kubota, but it's close enough that I feel pretty good about it. I won't be using it professionally so a little more time won't kill me. ...And since I'll be using it to install 3 board fencing which I'll want to be fairly straight and plumb, I assume that I'll be a bit more **** retentive and won't be driving the posts at an extremely high rate anyway.

While I think the HD-8 would probably work for me, the $780 difference between the HD-8H and HD-10H probably won't seem like much in the years to come. I can't say that I can remember a single time I've ever regretted opting for the more powerful option when purchasing machinery, tools, implements, etc.

Two questions for you ishiboo... Where did you plumb the return for the HD-10 to your L3650? Did you plumb it to the fill port on the transmission? That seems to be the most straight forward, easiest to access option on my L4400. Where you using a rear remote as the supply for your HD-10? I have a single rear remote that I don't typically use. I'm planning on hooking the supply of the HD-10 to one side of the rear remote and just bungee the lever into position while it's in use.

Don't be nervous... it'll be perfect. The pump capacity is total flow, which is combined with the power steering... my NX6010 lists about 17 GPM but I think only about 10GPM is available for implements. Either way, the flow on the L3650 was more than sufficient and I didn't notice any change between the two. I spoke with either Kencove or Shaver when I did it and they too said it wouldn't be a problem at all.

I would definitely say go with the 10. In dry ground, with flat-ended posts, it still takes a while to get a post in. Pounding pointed posts into damp soil it will sink them faster than you can move.

On my L3650, the loader valve was attached to the tractor with hoses and I had no remotes... so I converted my driver (it was closed center) to power beyond, and simply disconnected one of the loader valve PB quick connects and attached it in series. The return needs to have NO restriction (if it did, it would slow the drop), I think the only place to plumb it is the transmission fills. Both the Kubota and Kioti had them on the back which were 1" or 1-1/4" NPT, so I went to a local farm store and used the black quick connects to connect it, they look like this:



On the Kioti, I have 3 remotes and two have detent so I simply plumb it into one of the detent remotes. Since the valve on my Shaver is now power beyond, I simply run both hoses to a remote. I don't believe you should dead head the remote for any period of time, so you probably want a similar setup. Power beyond simply returns all the fluid back to the remote all the time, unless you're using a function on the driver.

Post drivers IMHO are a bit more for field fencing than wood board fencing. It will be a bit tricky to get every post straight, and I would be prepared to hand dig or auger a few that get messed up. Make sure you take all the slack out of the 3-point and the mounting bracket on the post driver. You might find it helpful to build a better stand for the driver to sit on when it's pounding... but I'm not sure, mine had an older style bracket that I know they've changed. Fortunately it sounds like your soil will make this easy.

Good luck, you'll love the driver and you will have zero performance issues running it on that size tractor.

 

[byrd]

The return needs to have NO restriction (if it did, it would slow the drop), I think the only place to plumb it is the transmission fills. Both the Kubota and Kioti had them on the back which were 1" or 1-1/4" NPT, so I went to a local farm store and used the black quick connects to connect it, they look like this:

View attachment 478361

My L4400 has a 1-1/4NPT fill cap. I've never seen a coupler like the one in your image. I'll need to go take a look for one.

On the Kioti, I have 3 remotes and two have detent so I simply plumb it into one of the detent remotes. Since the valve on my Shaver is now power beyond, I simply run both hoses to a remote. I don't believe you should dead head the remote for any period of time, so you probably want a similar setup. Power beyond simply returns all the fluid back to the remote all the time, unless you're using a function on the driver.

I'm a total newb when it comes to hydraulics, so I'm not sure I fully under stand the description here. My understanding is that the Shaver drivers have 2 hydraulic lines. One larger return line that gets plumbed back to the transmission with NO restrictions (transmission fill port in my case). Then a smaller hydraulic line that supplies pressure to post driver control valve. To be power beyond, wouldn't I need to tap of a power beyond port on my tractor (FEL) valve to supply the post driver, then have a third hose that runs from a power beyond port on the post driver back to the transmission? My L4400 currently has nothing connected to the power beyond port on the valve, so there is just a hydraulic line that loops straight from the power beyond port back to the transmission.

From my reading, is seems common to supply the post driver with a remote that is bungeed open (I don't have a detent remote), but I might be misunderstanding, and certainly don't want to do anything that will cause any damage! I guess I assumed (maybe incorrectly) that the post driver valve would have a pressure relief that would dump back into the main return line if necessary. The shaver manual doesn't seem to give much info on the valve or plumbing instructions.

Post drivers IMHO are a bit more for field fencing than wood board fencing. It will be a bit tricky to get every post straight, and I would be prepared to hand dig or auger a few that get messed up. Make sure you take all the slack out of the 3-point and the mounting bracket on the post driver. You might find it helpful to build a better stand for the driver to sit on when it's pounding

I'm DEFINITELY nervous about this, which was one of the reasons I was looking at the hydraulic adjust instead of the manual adjust. My thought was that it might lend itself to more frequent adjustments. The drivers at Kencover come with a hitch mount that has feet that set directly on the ground to stabilize the driver while in use, so that should help I just can't see myself tamping in 2-4 hundred posts by hand over the next year though!

As a side note, I noticed that Kencove sells what they call a PD-10H which is made by Shaver and is essentially identical to HD-10H. They also sell a PD100H which appears to have all the same physical specifications as the PH-10H/HD-10H, but it's a bit cheaper AND comes with the hitch mount. They do not specify that the PD100H is made by Shaver, so I don't know if is a lower grade driver or not. They are roughly the same weight by the info provided. I think I'll need to call them to get more information.

Video of the Kencove PD100H driver: Kencove Post Drivers - PD1 and PD8 - YouTube

 

[ishiboo]

I'm a total newb when it comes to hydraulics, so I'm not sure I fully under stand the description here. My understanding is that the Shaver drivers have 2 hydraulic lines. One larger return line that gets plumbed back to the transmission with NO restrictions (transmission fill port in my case). Then a smaller hydraulic line that supplies pressure to post driver control valve. To be power beyond, wouldn't I need to tap of a power beyond port on my tractor (FEL) valve to supply the post driver, then have a third hose that runs from a power beyond port on the post driver back to the transmission? My L4400 currently has nothing connected to the power beyond port on the valve, so there is just a hydraulic line that loops straight from the power beyond port back to the transmission.

I was a total newb when I bought the post pounder... and then I found not even my tractor mechanic or anyone I knew could explain the correct way to plumb it. It was amazing how confused people are about hydraulics and how to properly hook it up.

Stock, yes the post driver is set up for closed center - it has a 1/2" or so supply line, and a very large (1") "return". I hesitate to call it a return, because on a skid loader it's called a case drain, and it's not really the same as a return with a remote. Skid loaders I believe typically are set up for closed center so they have no problem doing this, while tractors are set up for power beyond.

When you plug it into your tractor, you will do it exactly as planned. But since you have the remote bungie corded, the fluid will constantly be diverted to the post pounder valve... and then it will stop there until you activate the post pounder. You will be dead-heading the pump since it is used to operating in a "power beyond" manner where the flow is in a big circle and is only stopped momentarily when you max out a cylinder.

I think the best way to do it is to add the power beyond plug into the post pounder's valve, and then run it back into the remote. That way the pump is never dead-headed, the fluid is constantly flowing.

From my reading,is seems common to supply the post driver with a remote that is bungeed open (I don't have a detent remote), but I might be misunderstanding, and certainly don't want to do anything that will cause any damage! I guess I assumed (maybe incorrectly) that the post driver valve would have a pressure relief that would dump back into the main return line if necessary. The shaver manual doesn't seem to give much info on the valve or plumbing instructions.

This is still fine. There's no need to add a power beyond port to the tractor. (Though that's probably the ideal setup). I just think you should convert the post driver valve to power beyond.

I'm DEFINITELY nervous about this, which was one of the reasons I was looking at the hydraulic adjust instead of the manual adjust. My thought was that it might lend itself to more frequent adjustments. The drivers at Kencover come with a hitch mount that has feet that set directly on the ground to stabilize the driver while in use, so that should help I just can't see myself tamping in 2-4 hundred posts by hand over the next year though!

As a side note, I noticed that Kencove sells what they call a PD-10H which is made by Shaver and is essentially identical to HD-10H. They also sell a PD100H which appears to have all the same physical specifications as the PH-10H/HD-10H, but it's a bit cheaper AND comes with the hitch mount. They do not specify that the PD100H is made by Shaver, so I don't know if is a lower grade driver or not. They are roughly the same weight by the info provided. I think I'll need to call them to get more information.

Video of the Kencove PD100H driver: Kencove Post Drivers - PD1�� and PD8� - YouTube

Definitely get the hydraulic adjustment... you'll want it.

I'm pretty sure their drivers are made by Shaver.