Logging Rant/Venting

[DrRod]

We have used a consulting forester for years. He always says that the logger does this every day and we only do it once a decade so you need someone to look out for your interests. Each time we cut timber, the contract includes a performance bond. The forester holds out some of the payment until they meet the terms of the contract and do a proper job of clean-up. Still, they once got away with burying a big cement pipe along the stream bank rather than hauling it away. But otherwise, the bond has ensured full compliance -- that's the key to a good contract.

 

[N80]

We do have a consulting forester. He just does not seem to be able to handle the loggers.

My contract has a place for a performance bond but it was marked 'waived'. I will know better in the future, but again, not sure they would have agreed to one since this thinning was not going to be a big money maker for them anyway.

Rest assured, when I do the full harvest of this place I will contract aggressively.

 

[om21braz]

Lump-sum sales limit your ability to deduct operating expenses for income tax purposes (Timber Taxation: A General Guide for Forestland Owners Forest Finance and Taxation Penn State Extension). Pay-as-cut sales work for me, but I use a consulting forester and contracts that protect my interests.

Steve

That method worked well for my father. On another note, the link below shows what some larger construction, oil fields, loggers are using for roads in & out:

Sterling Lumber & Midwest Access Solutions Partnership

 

[Renegade6]

Lots of good information here. Going to be doing the very same thing in a few years.

 

[dmccarty]

We logged our land and sold the timber to the logger via a timber deed and a contract. Part of the contract was that the logger followed the Best Management Practices(BMP) book plus some stipulations we added. One of the interesting details in the deed was that the logger paid us X dollars and had TWO years to take the marked trees. If the logger had NOT cut the trees in two years, the trees AND money was ours. This was for mostly saw logs not pulp wood.

We did have a forester manage the sale and timber operations.

The forester represented us and he made his money by getting a percentage of the timber sale. Sell the timber for more money and he makes more money. The timber sale was just after dawn and was a closed bid operation with the highest bidder getting the timber. The forester and I made sure the loggers did not do things outside of the BMP and contract. The logger came in and cut the trees with in a month or so of the contract being signed.

Later,
Dan

 

[smstonypoint]

Dan,

You had a lump-sum sale.

Steve

 

[N80]

Our contract stipulated BMP as well. No problems with that in this case, but in others it is clear that what a creek-bottom is means different things to loggers and landowners.

 

[smstonypoint]

Our contract stipulated BMP as well. No problems with that in this case, but in others it is clear that what a creek-bottom is means different things to loggers and landowners.

I don't know about SC, but in NC the County Ranger from the NC Forest Service visits logging sites to make sure that everything is kosher with regard to stream crossings, etc.

Steve

 

[CADplans]

I don't know about SC, but in NC the County Ranger from the NC Forest Service visits logging sites to make sure that everything is kosher with regard to stream crossings, etc.

Steve

That is what is done in Virginia,,, the the state considers a little divot in the soil a stream.

I wanted to fill it in, the loggers say NO WAY!! they will install a portable bridge.
Less than 100 feet up the hill, the land is flat, no ditch,,,
The ditch is only 2 feet deep, where they will cross.

 

[WoodChuckDad]

Someone has already linked the thread I had about my logging experience. I had to fire my first logger. He wasn't up the task and he was stealing from me. By that I mean he had a contract to clear cut and he was cherry picking. That is stealing. He would not have been given a favorable price on saw timber without the contract to clear cut....he defrauded me. Charming young guy....but not honest and reliable. My forester ...He put in a lot of work marking the property...but was always trying to get me to sell off more timber than I planned to. In the contracts, the Acreage number listed was higher than I wanted to or allowed to be cut. When the first logger failed, my forester found another one. The second logger was much better. A professional operation with experience and equipment to get the job done. They have also returned to do remediation on the stream crossing to handle erosion issues. In addition, I contracted with them to bulldoze the debris into burn piles. When cold weather comes, I will be burning a lot. All in all I didn't make much, and I will be paying it all back in bulldozer fees, but I was trying to clear forest land to farm it. I am very happy with the way things have turned out..and while it was really hard for me to get comfortable with cutting trees and clearing forest ( I am a deer hunter) I have some great fields to hunt now, and the view is the stuff people dream about. I am pleased with the second logger. They don't all suck. There is room for improvement though. There was a fair amount of trash tossed from the machines as they worked. That made my wife difficult to manage some days.

 

[N80]

The rest of the story:

I called the forester and the loggers and told them if they did not come back before the contract expired then they cannot come back at all. They waited two weeks of totally dry weather then came back three days ago right before this tropical storm moved in.

The forester says he could not work things out with my neighbor for access. I call my neighbor and he says there is no problem. I let the forester know AND told him I'd pay for road improvements AND culverts for even easier access. He says the loggers are moving out anyway.

The bottom line is that the forester totally misjudged the weather, repeatedly, he had no control over the loggers, did not make proper access arrangements and the end result is that they took everything that was easy to get and left me with the hard stuff unsold and now unthinned.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. I will never let this happen again.

I won't mention names here, but if you live in this area and are having work done, PM me and I'll tell you who NOT to work with. Both this forester and this logger will get bad "reviews" from me. It probably won't matter but I do know a lot of landowners in this area.

 

[RollingsFarms]

I can't remember but did your contract include a clause in it where if a certain deadline wasn't met you were paid so much money? I have a contract out right now that says the loggers have until December 31, 2016 to get my job done or they pay me $25,000.

 

[N80]

No. There was not much in the contract the benefited me. Again, this was a low paying job. The forester said the loggers were losing money towards the end. I think his full of it, but the point is, you can't get much in a contract when the stakes are so low for the logger.