New HST Stupid Question

   / New HST Stupid Question
  • Thread Starter
#11  
In other words, yes. Exactly.

If you understand that concept and are willing to set the throttle up a little ways and go play around, you will find the HST incredibly simple and intuitive use.

Thanks for the help. I just saw your tag about maple syrup. This particular cabin property, 3,000 plus feet, is loaded with big sugar maples. What is the best source of info to learn about making syrup?
 
   / New HST Stupid Question #12  
L would be your power range and M would be like fast mow range. Are you going to buy 1 of each model?
 
   / New HST Stupid Question
  • Thread Starter
#13  
L would be your power range and M would be like fast mow range. Are you going to buy 1 of each model?

I guess it seems that way. But, each has it's use, and I've reached the point where I can play a little. My wife doesn't mind, no poker nights, no golf trips, no Harley, and no girlfriends !!! I just love to jump on one of those tractors and play...
 
   / New HST Stupid Question #14  
I think I will. Are there instances where it would make sense, for the sake of the tractor, to run M with little pedal push vs L with more pedal push?
Yes. Thats kind of an advanced question, but basically if you are able to move, and to accelerate at whim, you may be able to go up a range. If then you can move but it bogs down when you try to accelerate gently it would be best to go back downrange. ... Note that I have not truly answered your question aside from a simplistic "yes". Conveying the nuances is somewhat difficult. ... Here is a post from another thread that may provide some fundamentals that will help things "click".

Regardless of tires there will always be a situation where they cannot be spun on any tractor. Universally, to my knowledge, this will happen first with a fluid drive. This is because you dont have a mechanical connection between engine and wheels - the connection passes thru fluid and fluid pressure is limited by a relief valve. So the torque to the wheels is limited by the relief setting and the displacement of the hyd motor being driven and then the final drive [geared] ratio to the wheels. This is the ratio you select when you change ranges.

With an HST, regardless of the relief setting the engine cannot be stalled without abusive operation of the pedal because you are varying the displacement of the hyd pump. Without the relief, infinite forces would be available in any range just by adjusting the pedal, and thereby pump displacement, so the HP driving the pump would deliver whatever pressure required to give the torque needed at the wheels. Of course the pressures would have to be proportionately higher in the higher ranges to get the torque needed at the wheels. Well, darn it anyway, we cant just keep kicking the forces up thruout the powertrain like that. We have to limit each part according to its ability. We limit the pump/motor with a protective relief valve, and we make the gears in the ranges amply strong to take the [thereby limited] hyd motor torque. We adjust the range gear ratios to give usable speed and wheel torque combinations. This part of the hst tractor is exactly analogous to a gear tractor if you recognize that each gear ratio is a range. Not surprisingly, on modern gear tractors, that usually have at least 8gears, the ratios are much more closely spaced thruout a conventional tractor min/max range of travel speed, than they are with hst which has just 2 or 3 gears/ranges to cover the full range of conventional speeds. So you dont find a lo range on an HST as low as 1st on an 8 speed. The hst will go faster in 1 of 3 than the gear in 1 of 8. That means the HST is effectively in a higher gear. And that means that the HST cannot deliver as much torque to the wheels if the relief valve is set safely. To realize this you have to take a close look at the interaction of the engine, pump, relief valve, and motor. The relief has to be set at a level low enuf so that it will relieve if the tractor is stopped dead in a pull. If it didnt something requiring repair would give. The wheels would spin? In lo range maybe, but not in hi. If the relief doesnt give and the wheels dont spin the engine stops dead. This kind of impulse must be prevented. For maximum and "safe" power delivery it is done by setting the relief at a pressure that will stall the full engine power gracefully at full pedal. Somewhat more than full engine torque is being delivered to the pump in this situation. The hyd pressure seen here is as high as it can go in the protected transmission. This pressure defines the max torque available from the motor that is driving the final ratio. Changing the flow with the pedal has only a tiny effect on this torque as the engine bogs. Because of the relief, backing off the pedal to let the engine work easy does only that - the pressure and therefore torque limit at the motor remains the same.
larry
 
   / New HST Stupid Question #15  
I've used my B2320 for five years for very rough bush hogging, a fair amount of loader work including maxing out the lift & scoop, and a bit of grading.

What I do is:

High range for long trips with no load in areas where it's not too beat up (good graded gravel or paved road). I've run six miles one way on roads, sometimes use the cruise if I'm not carrying the bush hog. The banging of that thing keeps me in a lower range.

Medium range for general running across a pasture or two-track etc while carrying no or light load, e.g. getting from a short point A to point B where work will start at point B.

Low range for all work: bush hogging, front loader work & carrying or dragging anything of significance, and it's in 4WD then too.

You'll learn pretty quickly the HST is very easy to use and the B2320 will get about anywhere if you keep yer wits about you. ImageUploadedByTractorByNet1472267711.670539.jpg
 
   / New HST Stupid Question #16  
I think I will. Are there instances where it would make sense, for the sake of the tractor, to run M with little pedal push vs L with more pedal push? Am I making sense?

Kind of like in a stick shift car--20mph in first gear vs 20 mph in second gear. There are times for each, and for the same reasons as in an HST tractor.

Bruce
 
   / New HST Stupid Question #17  
I think I will. Are there instances where it would make sense, for the sake of the tractor, to run M with little pedal push vs L with more pedal push? Am I making sense?

I could let you Virginians duke it out with question and answer, but I'll take a stab at this one. The further you push the pedal, the more oil flows through the system. The more flow, the more opportunity for cooling the oil. Generally speaking, the lowest range that still allows you to achieve your task is the best. Personally, I keep my tractor in M 90% of the time. If I'm doing something with a low ground speed or something that requires lots of pull, then I switch to L. H is for the road.

Regarding maple syrup, mapletrader.com is a good forum for the syrup info. The North American Maple Syrup Producer's Manual is a good book for the basics. It sounds like your property might be on a slope. There's incredible stuff going on in the syrup world right now with a new tubing size (3/16 instead of 5/16). I'm partially inclined to see if SPYDERLK wants to guess the rain for the difference, but I'll just go ahead and spoil it. The smaller tubing creates natural vacuum at the taphole, and you can achieve very impressive sap yield without the expensive vacuum pumps and releasers that are normally used. A Google search for 3/16 sap tubing will get you started, but if you've got 40' of elevation drop to play with, you can look at yielding .5 gallons of syrup per tap with an installation cost less than $4/tap. Of course you still need to cook the sap down, but it's very cool stuff. Much easier than hanging buckets. Anyway, it's a pretty consuming hobby for me. I've been doing it my whole life, but pretty seriously for about 6 years. I've worked my way up to a 4x14 evaporator that'll make 6 gallons of syrup per hour. You should absolutely try making some. It's a blast!!
 
   / New HST Stupid Question #18  
Steppenwolfe

I own a Yanmar Ea2400 with a 0.9 litre engine, rated 24 hp at 3200 rpm with a 2 speed HST. I set different engine speeds for different tasks as follows which, imho, gives the best compromise on my hearing comfort, engine longevity and job effectiveness (all in low gear)
- start up: 1300 rpm warming up to around 1400 rpm
- lifting up fel and 3 pt linkage slightly before slowly moving off concrete slab: 2000 rpm
- after about 5 metres, pick up speed a little to move down a slight slope: 2100 rpm
- heavy loader work (4 in 1 bucket picking up and slowing transporting dirt): 2400 rpm flat surface up to 2800 rpm on difficult terrain.
- box blade work with 3 tine cultivator in clay soil: from 2500 tp 3200 rpm
- mmm work: start 1500 rpm increasing to 2400 rpm
- tilling work: start 1500 rpm increasing to about 2200 rpm
- going uphill with some speed while maintaining a degree of hearing comfort: 2500 rpm.

I can lug the engine by overloading the hst - such as pressing hard forward while going uphill with a heavy load. I cannot lug the engine by using the hydraulics alone (the hydraulic flow capacity is way within the engine hp at anything above low idle, and the relief valve would operate well before the engine felt any real load.

Your engine is rated at 2800 rpm and so I would probably use about 10% less engine speed on your tractor for the above tasks. Hope this helps.
 
   / New HST Stupid Question
  • Thread Starter
#19  
Steppenwolfe

I own a Yanmar Ea2400 with a 0.9 litre engine, rated 24 hp at 3200 rpm with a 2 speed HST. I set different engine speeds for different tasks as follows which, imho, gives the best compromise on my hearing comfort, engine longevity and job effectiveness (all in low gear)
- start up: 1300 rpm warming up to around 1400 rpm


- lifting up fel and 3 pt linkage slightly before slowly moving off concrete slab: 2000 rpm
- after about 5 metres, pick up speed a little to move down a slight slope: 2100 rpm
- heavy loader work (4 in 1 bucket picking up and slowing transporting dirt): 2400 rpm flat surface up to 2800 rpm on difficult terrain.
- box blade work with 3 tine cultivator in clay soil: from 2500 tp 3200 rpm
- mmm work: start 1500 rpm increasing to 2400 rpm
- tilling work: start 1500 rpm increasing to about 2200 rpm
- going uphill with some speed while maintaining a degree of hearing comfort: 2500 rpm.

I can lug the engine by overloading the hst - such as pressing hard forward while going uphill with a heavy load. I cannot lug the engine by using the hydraulics alone (the hydraulic flow capacity is way within the engine hp at anything above low idle, and the relief valve would operate well before the engine felt any real load.

Your engine is rated at 2800 rpm and so I would probably use about 10% less engine speed on your tractor for the above tasks. Hope this helps.


Certainly does. Thanks, Mate!
 
   / New HST Stupid Question
  • Thread Starter
#20  
I could let you Virginians duke it out with question and answer, but I'll take a stab at this one. The further you push the pedal, the more oil flows through the system. The more flow, the more opportunity for cooling the oil. Generally speaking, the lowest range that still allows you to achieve your task is the best. Personally, I keep my tractor in M 90% of the time. If I'm doing something with a low ground speed or something that requires lots of pull, then I switch to L. H is for the road.

Regarding maple syrup, mapletrader.com is a good forum for the syrup info. The North American Maple Syrup Producer's Manual is a good book for the basics. It sounds like your property might be on a slope. There's incredible stuff going on in the syrup world right now with a new tubing size (3/16 instead of 5/16). I'm partially inclined to see if SPYDERLK wants to guess the rain for the difference, but I'll just go ahead and spoil it. The smaller tubing creates natural vacuum at the taphole, and you can achieve very impressive sap yield without the expensive vacuum pumps and releasers that are normally used. A Google search for 3/16 sap tubing will get you started, but if you've got 40' of elevation drop to play with, you can look at yielding .5 gallons of syrup per tap with an installation cost less than $4/tap. Of course you still need to cook the sap down, but it's very cool stuff. Much easier than hanging buckets. Anyway, it's a pretty consuming hobby for me. I've been doing it my whole life, but pretty seriously for about 6 years. I've worked my way up to a 4x14 evaporator that'll make 6 gallons of syrup per hour. You should absolutely try making some. It's a blast!!

Great info. I have really been contemplating the hobby of maple syrup. I just think I would enjoy it, moonshine in the summer, and maple syrup in the spring! But yes, our property slopes from 3025 ft at the high point to 2850 where it hits the river. I need to start some research.
 

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