250' water line: got some questions

[LD1]

Eddie,

What I have found is that for some reason in TX you can only buy black poly rated to 80 or 100 psig (thinwall) but in other places in the country they sell 160 or 200 psi rated poly. I also hate black poly but for years the locals were using the thin stuff which is very weak and thin.

Look at Lowe's and change the location to PA or somewhere in the NE and check out the differences in black poly.

That may explain things a bit?

Eddie has always advised against poly, perhaps that is the reason?

Again, up here, the local water companies recommend ONLY poly. And SDR-7 200psi stuff. Waterline failure of black PE pipe is as rare as hens teeth around here

 

[RNeumann]

Uh yah poly rated at 80-100 psi may work for low voltage conduit in a pinch but it's not worth digging the hole to out that stuff in! Now I understand why folks don't like the stuff- if that's all you know of it.

PVC at 36" plus is not a good idea either. The stuff is too prone to failure at joints or cracking. At 12" you will find the leak fairly easy. At 36" you may be looking for some time. PVC is for areas like CA, AZ and FL

The issue with PEX is the joints. They don't make a good direct bury joint. So if you can do it all in one run and don't have a joint buried, that would be fine. But the proper poly with proper fittings is the industry standard- especially in areas that freeze.

I know the appeal of the big box stores but for the underground stuff they are lacking. Check the website above- I think they will ship pipe as well. Also check your local plumbing wholesaler. Some will sell to you for a project like this (several hundred feet of pipe, fittings, valves etc to make up both ends)- don't call for one fitting though!

 

[RNeumann]

As a follow-up. That website is listing a 200' coil of SDR11 for $92 and a 500' coil for $232. The compression fittings are about $20 each depending on what you need.

 

[jenkinsph]

As a follow-up. That website is listing a 200' coil of SDR11 for $92 and a 500' coil for $232. The compression fittings are about $20 each depending on what you need.

Since the run is 250' I would look for some 300' rolls. I know I buy pex in 300' rolls frequently and would recommend it.

 

[RNeumann]

Since the run is 250' I would look for some 300' rolls. I know I buy pex in 300' rolls frequently and would recommend it.

For that run you should do 1". I haven't seen PEX 1" in 300' rolls. If the run is at or a few feet under 250' the 500' roll would be perfect- one for water and one for the low voltage conduit.

I'm curious what the fascination with PEX for underground is? What data or design features make it a superior product for underground? Attach a link for the PEX underground fittings or are you also recommending the standard PEX fittings be buried. What is the disadvantage of HDPE over PEX for underground?

 

[jenkinsph]

For that run you should do 1". I haven't seen PEX 1" in 300' rolls. If the run is at or a few feet under 250' the 500' roll would be perfect- one for water and one for the low voltage conduit.

I'm curious what the fascination with PEX for underground is? What data or design features make it a superior product for underground? Attach a link for the PEX underground fittings or are you also recommending the standard PEX fittings be buried. What is the disadvantage of HDPE over PEX for underground?

I don't have a fascination with PEX and used HDPE too. If the termination points can be accessed at each end easily enough the pex fittings are cheaper. I kept fittings for both on my plumbing truck and used what was appropriate for the job at hand. The hdpe is available in cts sizes as well and works with pex fittings. The hdpe in ips sizes is also good but the Mueller fittings are more expensive.

 

[pmsmechanic]

I'm learning something here. Where I live water lines are buried eight feet deep for frost. Sometimes there is a leak in a farmer's corral but that's usually because of not using stainless hose clamps. I'm involved with natural gas and the only accepted way to join pipe is by fusing the pipe together. There's a tool that grips the pipe and trims the joining faces flat to match each other. The ends of the pipe are heated and then melted together. More and more farmers are also using this method to join pipe underground as there is no metal to rust. Gas lines are yellow plastic. Both yellow and black plastic can easily be fused together.

 

[EddieWalker]

For that run you should do 1". I haven't seen PEX 1" in 300' rolls. If the run is at or a few feet under 250' the 500' roll would be perfect- one for water and one for the low voltage conduit.

I'm curious what the fascination with PEX for underground is? What data or design features make it a superior product for underground? Attach a link for the PEX underground fittings or are you also recommending the standard PEX fittings be buried. What is the disadvantage of HDPE over PEX for underground?

Curious use of words. My so called "fascination" with PEX is that it comes in a single roll longer then 250 feet, which means there is no joint anywhere along the line. Just about every leak in a water line is at the joint, so if you can avoid having any connections, odds are very good that you will not have a joint. That leaves you with deciding between PEX or black poly. For me, PEX is the better product.

 

[newbury]

<snip>

And HD in Tupelo sells 300' rolls of 1" PEX for $332.55.

So TBN - is there an advantage of black poly over PEX?

For that run you should do 1". I haven't seen PEX 1" in 300' rolls. If the run is at or a few feet under 250' the 500' roll would be perfect- one for water and one for the low voltage conduit.

Did you see my post? "300' rolls of 1" PEX for $332.55" They also sell SharkBite 1-Inch PEX Tubing, 500 Feet, BLUE, for Residential and Commercial Potable Water Applications.

I'm curious what the fascination with PEX for underground is? What data or design features make it a superior product for underground? Attach a link for the PEX underground fittings or are you also recommending the standard PEX fittings be buried. What is the disadvantage of HDPE over PEX for underground?

The last page of this thread explains some problems with black poly in Texas, but that may be due to insufficient wall thickness.

And what is a "standard PEX fitting"? I've seen at least 11 types of PEX fittings

 

[RNeumann]

I'm learning something here. Where I live water lines are buried eight feet deep for frost. Sometimes there is a leak in a farmer's corral but that's usually because of not using stainless hose clamps. I'm involved with natural gas and the only accepted way to join pipe is by fusing the pipe together. There's a tool that grips the pipe and trims the joining faces flat to match each other. The ends of the pipe are heated and then melted together. More and more farmers are also using this method to join pipe underground as there is no metal to rust. Gas lines are yellow plastic. Both yellow and black plastic can easily be fused together.

You are correct the HDPE or as some are calling it Poly can either be socket fused or butt fused. The machines heat both parts for a specific time and then fuse them together. The butt joints require a more complex machine but require no fittings when simply attaching pipe together for long runs. The butt joints are are also used for larger pipes- gas mains, water mains etc that the utilities put in. The socket fusing uses a fairly simple iron but does require fittings to couple pipe. It sounds like, unfortunately, your farmer neighbors used a thin walled poly pipe that could be clamped with a hose clamp. Im sure they make better fittings than the barbed fitting and clamps as that will always be a weak point.