250' water line: got some questions

[jenkinsph]

newbury, If you bury your water line deep enough to be in firm ground so that it is not sheared that would be the concern. I lay all pipes at least 18" deep in my locale and most water lines are 36" for freeze protection.

To answer your question if you bury a water line 12" deep you should be able to drive a large drilling rig over it and have no effect on it.

 

[ultrarunner]

The big problem in some areas here is shifting ground... either expansive due to wet and dry or earthquake.

In the future will need to replace a 1500' line that is a combination of galvanized and pvc and just about all now surface run... a lot of problems stopped when it was no longer buried... thankfully a hard freeze is rare.

 

[bigdeano]

I used to live where we had gophers. They ate poly pipe like licorice. We had to use PVC. Where I live now nothing bothers black poly.

My brother has outdoor faucets on poly risers. They've frozen hundreds of times with no ill effects to the pipe. The valves have taken a beating though.

 

[LD1]

Huh?
HDPE is the only thing used here, lasts practically forever.

Yep. Its the only thing recommended by the rural water companies too. At least until you get to bigger sizes then PVC becomes one of their "recommended" options.

Alot of geothermal companies recommend it as well, and warranty the stuff for 50 years. And no warranty, and/or voided warranty if anything else (including pex) is used.

Once in the ground, the stuff should NOT move. You burry it below the frost line. And its not like a little movement causes a break, cause the stuff is NOT brittle. I have snagged old runs of PE pipe with the backhoe before. It bends, flexes, stretches quite a bit before it breaks.

 

[EddieWalker]

I can't speak for any other part of the country about black poly pipe. Just here in East Texas. Our soil is mostly red clay, but there are pockets of other types of clay that is more expansive then the red clay. When the ground is wet and it freezes, it moves. This is what cracks foundations and what pushes fence posts out of the ground. It also stretches and pulls the pipe in the ground. Gasketed water pipe is what is used for everything now. The pipe can slide in and out of each other an inch and still not leak. Maybe more.

Years ago Black Poly was used in parts of Tyler and it's proven to be a never ending nightmare. The Water Department has crews out 24/7 making repairs. Usually it's before the meter, so the homeowners are not paying for it. After the meter, most of those homes have copper. One of the houses that I flipped had this happen to me. The line broke in the middle of the night and ran for hours before a crew could get out there. They told me that they had multiple breaks that night and they where unable to get to all of them in a timely manner.

I'm with a different Water District then the city of Tyler, and they do not allow Black Polly for any of their lines, or even to run from the meter to a house.

From the different plumbers that I've spoken to, and the guys at the supply houses, nobody likes Black Poly. If you have it, I understand your liking it if it hasn't busted. Obviously it doesn't have a 100% failure rate, but when buying new and installing new, it's failure rate is big enough that I would never use it.

If the OP can afford it, you can get PEX in 300 foot rolls. That would probably be the very best product out there in my opinion. My water line is 800 feet long on my land and another 150 feet under the highway in front of my land. I paid to have a bore drilled under the highway to bring the water to my land. The Water Department used gasketed pipe under the highway, and then I paid their tax free cost for the pipe that I used on my land and installed it myself with their supervision and inspection. For only 250 feet, I don't think gasketed pipe is the best choice, but I don't know the soil or conditions there.

Those are the only two products that I would consider.

 

[EddieWalker]

Back in CA, where I'm from, I was on some jobs that required a foot of sand all around every pipe in the ground. I don't remember the depth requirements, but going off of memory, guess they where 3 to 4 feet down. Earthquakes happen there every day, but most are too small to even notice. With the earth moving all the time, the soil would rub, or abrade the sides of the pipe so thin that they would fail. I never installed those pipes or eve seen them. I came in after the top layer of sand was installed, so I don't know what the pipe was. It wasn't an interest of mine back then.

If you have soil contacting your pipe, it's moving to some degree.

 

[RNeumann]

Reviving this thread because my meter was recording usage of 1,000 gallons per day with nobody home and the water line requires a run almost 350 feet to be buried.


Would Cat6 work for the signal wire?


I'm wanting to run cat 6 burial cable, and maybe coax, so I don't have to try and go wireless through the trees to my workshops, about 250 feet away. 200 feet of the route would be along the water line.



That is very similar to my conundrum. Especially the North Mississippi part. I just had a plumber out here to talk about "finding" the leak and after looking at the problem (present line poorly marked, about 50 feet of asphalt cross) he referred me to a backhoe/trencher operator.
Now I'm about a half hour north of Fulton, the plumber and his helper wandered around looking at the situation for about another half hour and he only asked for $20 (but I made him take $30).

The equipment operator came out today and we talked about it for about a half hour. He figured he could come out with his excavator and get the job done for a modest price. He'll dig a trench and bury anything I want, black poly, PVC, PEX, CAT 6 (maybe even Cat 1 and Pit Bull 2), but spoke favorably of PEX.

And HD in Tupelo sells 300' rolls of 1" PEX for $332.55.

So TBN - is there an advantage of black poly over PEX?

PEX is typically known as PEX A or PEX B both are now rated for direct bury (check local code) and would be fine.

If you are in an area with no freezing and not heavily forested I've seen SCH40 PVC. It's not as strong as the other options because of joints and it becomes brittle but it works for "easy" applications.

Black Poly is like saying fuel or tractor. About all you know is it's pipe! "Poly" is used for about every underground application out there- conduit, natural gas, propane, water, sewer etc. In the proper grade and type it is the standard for most utilities and municipalities. The folks who do a lot of this are using heat to fuse or weld the joints- I personally Socket Fuse as I do water and gas that is 2" or smaller. For the homeowner or smaller installer you will need the nice mechanical fasteners- not barbed fittings and clamps!
Sorry to be blunt but don't cheap out and run cat6 for your sprinkler controls. The sprinkler wire isn't that much more and will be a better long term solution. You don't want to re-dig everything to replace $50 worth of wire. I also wouldn't recommend direct bury for your network needs- run 3/4" conduit (size for network cable and coax). Right now you want cat 6 and next year it's Cat something else or you decide you want an intercom or TV. Again you don't want to re-dig this.

Depth is determined by frost line- typically you go 6-12" below the frost line. Deeper under areas where the cold is driven ( ice packed down) into the ground like a driveway. If you are not in an area that freezes plumbing code specifies 12". Most areas also require a tracer wire for the water line and they typically specify color and gauge.

I don't have anything to do with this place and most of what I buy comes from my supply house but this will point you in the right direction.

https://www.hdpesupply.com/

 

[nickmags]

Had 280' 1 inch PVC water line in Maryville, TN. It was the connect to the manditory county water system. It was buried 36" plus as per code there. Had repeated problems. Contractor did a crappy job glueing joints???. Over three years dug up 4 different spots to fix water leaks. I would recommend PEX continuous. No joints to leak. Our line was beside our driveway, maybe traffic affected compaction?? which helped joints separate, but if I were doing it again, would go with one piece PEX. Would also use 1.25" line. Would also bury at least 24". that gives added protection from any traffic and ensures well below frost line.

 

[TheGoose]

Eddie,

What I have found is that for some reason in TX you can only buy black poly rated to 80 or 100 psig (thinwall) but in other places in the country they sell 160 or 200 psi rated poly. I also hate black poly but for years the locals were using the thin stuff which is very weak and thin.

Look at Lowe's and change the location to PA or somewhere in the NE and check out the differences in black poly.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

I use at least 160 psi rated. Glad I don't have tx clay.