Block Heater??

[RNeumann]

I have newer vehicles- both tractor and trucks. I've read a lot of posts recently about Engine Block heaters (''tis the season!!) I've visited the websites for a few heaters and they make the claim of reduced emissions (less time it runs rich) and that your heater will blow warm air sooner. But none of the sites list easier starting as a benefit.

I realize in extreme cold like Alaska and parts of Canada it's a different story with fuel line heaters, battery heaters etc. That's not what I'm asking about.

From what I understand the glow plug or grid heater is heating the combustion chamber. The newer multi-viscosity and especially synthetic oils seem to flow better when cold. And the metallurgy is better as well.

So what is the reason folks in the lower 48 are adding block heaters to modern tractors? I tried to buy one from the dealer and he said I didn't need it. I could see an oil heater if things were below zero and you wanted better oil flow immediately, but not the engine block heater. Has someone had a modern tractor fail to start when cold? Then suddenly start with a block heater added? Or maybe someone has a link with good data on the subject?

Been around engines in mild climates for some time but north Idaho is new to me.

 

[Jerry/MT]

I have newer vehicles- both tractor and trucks. I've read a lot of posts recently about Engine Block heaters (''tis the season!!) I've visited the websites for a few heaters and they make the claim of reduced emissions (less time it runs rich) and that your heater will blow warm air sooner. But none of the sites list easier starting as a benefit.

I realize in extreme cold like Alaska and parts of Canada it's a different story with fuel line heaters, battery heaters etc. That's not what I'm asking about.

From what I understand the glow plug or grid heater is heating the combustion chamber. The newer multi-viscosity and especially synthetic oils seem to flow better when cold. And the metallurgy is better as well.

So what is the reason folks in the lower 48 are adding block heaters to modern tractors? I tried to buy one from the dealer and he said I didn't need it. I could see an oil heater if things were below zero and you wanted better oil flow immediately, but not the engine block heater. Has someone had a modern tractor fail to start when cold? Then suddenly start with a block heater added? Or maybe someone has a link with good data on the subject?

Been around engines in mild climates for some time but north Idaho is new to me.

What's been your experience with the weather the Northern Rockies has been having recently? Unless you keep your machine in a heated shed, you've probably had difficulty starting a diesel without a block heater for a starting aid..

Here's the deal with diesel engines. First the compression ratios are very high (17:1) which requires more power than the same displacement spark ignition engine. The fuel/air charge requires the high temperatures to begin the combustion reaction and cold cylinder walls and head have a deactivating effect on chemical reactions that need to take place. Oil viscosity is high at lower temperatures so power required for cranking the engine is increased even with synthetic oils( that not to say that synthetic oils don't reduce power required relative to dino oils but the power required is increased by decreased temperatures). Finally battery output is decreased significantly by low temperatures.

A block heater warms the coolant which warms the cylinder walls and the head and the oil on those walls and the head and that reduces the power required to crank the engine. The fuel/air charge is somewhat warmed and the temperature rise of the charge is higher resulting in better combustion starting conditions. I have a 2007 New Holland TD95D that I feed with. This is a "modern diesel" engine (Tier II). I experience very similar ambient temperatures to Northern Idaho. I have difficulty starting at 10F without a block heater with a good battery, winter fuel, and an engine with 454 hours on it. ( just replaced the block heater on Saturday December 10th because the old block heater failed!) With the block heater plugged in for two hours at 10F ambient temperature the engine starts on the first turn.

Don't let a dealer talk you out of using a block heater in Northern Idaho. for a diesel powered tractor. All my diesels have them and they start on the first roll after preheating with a block heater. I can only share my experience with you but I'm sure there is hard engineering data data available for using block heaters as a starting aid. That's why outfits like Phillips Temro make so many different versions to fit a wide variety of diesels. And by the way they make for easy starting on spark ignition engine too.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

I'll second Jerry, we got to -30F two winters ago and my 2011 deere would not have started without the block heater!!! We typically do not see temps that cold, but below 0 is not unusual. I do run full synthetic oil in my tractors as well.

 

[RNeumann]

What's been your experience with the weather the Northern Rockies has been having recently? Unless you keep your machine in a heated shed, you've probably had difficulty starting a diesel without a block heater for a starting aid..

Here's the deal with diesel engines. First the compression ratios are very high (17:1) which requires more power than the same displacement spark ignition engine. The fuel/air charge requires the high temperatures to begin the combustion reaction and cold cylinder walls and head have a deactivating effect on chemical reactions that need to take place. Oil viscosity is high at lower temperatures so power required for cranking the engine is increased even with synthetic oils( that not to say that synthetic oils don't reduce power required relative to dino oils but the power required is increased by decreased temperatures). Finally battery output is decreased significantly by low temperatures.

A block heater warms the coolant which warms the cylinder walls and the head and the oil on those walls and the head and that reduces the power required to crank the engine. The fuel/air charge is somewhat warmed and the temperature rise of the charge is higher resulting in better combustion starting conditions. I have a 2007 New Holland TD95D that I feed with. This is a "modern diesel" engine (Tier II). I experience very similar ambient temperatures to Northern Idaho. I have difficulty starting at 10F without a block heater with a good battery, winter fuel, and an engine with 454 hours on it. ( just replaced the block heater on Saturday December 10th because the old block heater failed!) With the block heater plugged in for two hours at 10F ambient temperature the engine starts on the first turn.

Don't let a dealer talk you out of using a block heater in Northern Idaho. for a diesel powered tractor. All my diesels have them and they start on the first roll after preheating with a block heater. I can only share my experience with you but I'm sure there is hard engineering data data available for using block heaters as a starting aid. That's why outfits like Phillips Temro make so many different versions to fit a wide variety of diesels. And by the way they make for easy starting on spark ignition engine too.

Thanks for the info. So far so good starting here but it's only been in the teens. I've had the Duramax at 2°f without issue as well.

EURIKA!!!! On the Phillips Temro site with regards to block heater temps. The GM heater doesn't kick on until the ambient air temp is 0°f or -18c. That's the type of info I have been looking for. According to GM somewhere around 0°f is when I should be thinking about the block heater.

Here is the link-
FAQs

Like I said in my post I understand the oil heater. That is easy enough to visualize and see- pour your motor oil of choice and see what temp it is pouring or flowing at an undesired rate. Below that- add heat!

Thank you again for the info!

 

[RjCorazza]

I don't NEED a block heater, but even at 20 deg f there is a significant difference in starting with a block heater. At my first coolant change I'm going to install one on my current tractor.

 

[Jerry/MT]

Thanks for the info. So far so good starting here but it's only been in the teens. I've had the Duramax at 2ｰf without issue as well.

EURIKA!!!! On the Phillips Temro site with regards to block heater temps. The GM heater doesn't kick on until the ambient air temp is 0ｰf or -18c. That's the type of info I have been looking for. According to GM somewhere around 0ｰf is when I should be thinking about the block heater.

Here is the link-
FAQs

Like I said in my post I understand the oil heater. That is easy enough to visualize and see- pour your motor oil of choice and see what temp it is pouring or flowing at an undesired rate. Below that- add heat!

Thank you again for the info!

I'm glad you found it useful.

 

[Ivan49]

My Kubota came with a block heater. I have not needed it yet but if we ever get another winter of -35 for a week it will be used. I have started my diesel engines have started in -10 but they are in a pole barn

 

[oosik]

First things first here - if its -20F or colder - its gonna take a mighty big wench to pull me outa the house. I did go out once at -20F and start the tractor - last time for that stupidity. Operating an open station tractor at those temps, putting your buns on a frozen vinyl seat - not for me. For whatever reason I've never liked block heaters. I've always used lower radiator hose tank heaters. I've always found that a vehicle will start easier if heated one way or another.

That being said - I have no heaters on any of my vehicles. All my vehicles are in separate stalls in my carport. They all have Deltron battery tenders and have always started fine. It just takes longer for them to come up to operating temps.

 

[The Fred]

Diesel engines with common rail systems and electronic injectors start much better than old design mechanical injection pumps that simply dump fuel in at a predetermined rate.

Reason being the computer adds a very tiny shot of fuel on the compression stroke at cold ambient temps that starts the combustion process seamlessly. The difference in cold starting is night and day.

If your tractor has an old school injection pump then a block heater will help. Cold here and when the temps hit zero my machines won't start without a little help.

Regards, Fred

 

[Looking4new]

When the temps are below freezing the diesel gets plugged in. $0.18/kwh is a lot cheaper than a starter and the added heat makes them (a) start easier and (b) warm up faster. The gasser gets a couple of hours of block heater after the tractor is running for the same reasons.

 

[jk96]

When the temps are below freezing the diesel gets plugged in. $0.18/kwh is a lot cheaper than a starter and the added heat makes them (a) start easier and (b) warm up faster. The gasser gets a couple of hours of block heater after the tractor is running for the same reasons.

Wow - 0.18/kwh? I was complaining when we moved and my rates went from .08 to .13/kwh.

 

[ovrszd]

Diesel engines with common rail systems and electronic injectors start much better than old design mechanical injection pumps that simply dump fuel in at a predetermined rate.

Reason being the computer adds a very tiny shot of fuel on the compression stroke at cold ambient temps that starts the combustion process seamlessly. The difference in cold starting is night and day.

If your tractor has an old school injection pump then a block heater will help. Cold here and when the temps hit zero my machines won't start without a little help.

Regards, Fred

My 2012 Kubota doesn't have a block heater, uses Glow Plugs. It starts fairly easy. I haven't tried it at teens or lower temps.

My 1984 Ford has a block heater and no Glow Plugs. It starts hard, even at temps around freezing, if you don't use the block heater.

As Fred explained, two completely different designs involved.

I'm a believer of block heaters if you are going to continually start your diesel engine cold. I think it's just much easier on the mechanicals involved. I wouldn't think of cranking our JD770G Road Grader without plugging it in first when temps are at 20F degrees or lower.

 

[Brotherdan]

Being a transplant to the flatlands of the eastern seaboard, our coldest winter day is a warm spring morning by northern Idaho standards.

Tractor motors are usually heavy, and it takes a LOT of heat to warm one up. Even on warm days, it takes longer than you might assume for the oil to make it up and around most engines. Warming the oil should/may help reduce that time it takes for the oil to first get around. BUT, it's going to be stone cold when it gets back to the pan. Water jacket heating helps a bit with that, but I've noticed they are better for frequently used machinery (at least daily) if it's being used without heating the oil. So, if the goal is to reduce the overall punishment to the machine, you first should sign-up to letting the tractor warm-up for at least the time it takes for a cup of coffee and two smokes after it starts regardless of whatever warming (if any) you choose.

I really hope this is stating the obvious, but over the last couple decades I've noticed a tendency of people to be in gear and rolling before the starter quits spinning.

 

[RNeumann]

Diesel engines with common rail systems and electronic injectors start much better than old design mechanical injection pumps that simply dump fuel in at a predetermined rate.

Reason being the computer adds a very tiny shot of fuel on the compression stroke at cold ambient temps that starts the combustion process seamlessly. The difference in cold starting is night and day.

If your tractor has an old school injection pump then a block heater will help. Cold here and when the temps hit zero my machines won't start without a little help.

Regards, Fred

This makes sense. Also explains why some are some adamant it helps while others say they don't need it.

 

[RNeumann]

Being a transplant to the flatlands of the eastern seaboard, our coldest winter day is a warm spring morning by northern Idaho standards.

Tractor motors are usually heavy, and it takes a LOT of heat to warm one up. Even on warm days, it takes longer than you might assume for the oil to make it up and around most engines. Warming the oil should/may help reduce that time it takes for the oil to first get around. BUT, it's going to be stone cold when it gets back to the pan. Water jacket heating helps a bit with that, but I've noticed they are better for frequently used machinery (at least daily) if it's being used without heating the oil. So, if the goal is to reduce the overall punishment to the machine, you first should sign-up to letting the tractor warm-up for at least the time it takes for a cup of coffee and two smokes after it starts regardless of whatever warming (if any) you choose.

I really hope this is stating the obvious, but over the last couple decades I've noticed a tendency of people to be in gear and rolling before the starter quits spinning.

I understand this concept. The manual says to bring the engine to 1500 rpm- ideal RPM for top end, cam and cylinder lubrication.

 

[holeycow]

The old "should I get a block heater?" thread.

Those of us who know better are quite amused by those who say "mine starts, so I don't need one". Lol.

My stuff will start too. I just don't feel a need to punish them needlessly.

 

[Bavarian]

I would recommend a block heater for the northern IA area.
There was a report someday about engine oils in cold truck engines. It took a 15w40 oil about 90 seconds to get to all points of the engine when started at -40. This puts enormous stress on some parts of the engine. And it will be always the same parts running dry.
Lighter oil and/or applying heat will reduce this time.
Adjust the your equipment to the area you live in.
NEVER increase RPM to build up oil pressure. ALWAY'S start in low idle and have it idling for a while before adding fuel. If you have to add fuel to get it started, you have a problem elsewhere. Heat might help.

 

[RNeumann]

The old "should I get a block heater?" thread.

Those of us who know better are quite amused by those who say "mine starts, so I don't need one". Lol.

My stuff will start too. I just don't feel a need to punish them needlessly.

This offers very little. I was asking for data (web links etc) that show the reason to or not to use one. Lol.....

 

[RNeumann]

I would recommend a block heater for the northern IA area.
There was a report someday about engine oils in cold truck engines. It took a 15w40 oil about 90 seconds to get to all points of the engine when started at -40. This puts enormous stress on some parts of the engine. And it will be always the same parts running dry.
Lighter oil and/or applying heat will reduce this time.
Adjust the your equipment to the area you live in.
NEVER increase RPM to build up oil pressure. ALWAY'S start in low idle and have it idling for a while before adding fuel. If you have to add fuel to get it started, you have a problem elsewhere. Heat might help.

I understand this concept (thickening oil in cold temps) and have seen it first hand. It would make sense to use an oil heater for this right?

 

[RedNeckRacin]

This offers very little. I was asking for data (web links etc) that show the reason to or not to use one. Lol.....

Use your ears. If you can't tell the difference in cranking over a motor with and without a block heater then don't use one. Why do you need data to figure this out? If the machine starts easier why not use it?