2017 F150

s219 · Dec 24, 2016

Saturn was more about plastic panels over steel. I don't know that there was any weight advantage to the plastic. Certainly no structural advantage.

robertm · Dec 24, 2016

I often wonder why a composite wouldn't be the way to go. Some of these new materials are so strong. Even if the composite was overlaid with an aluminum skin to receive paint if the composite wasn't best for a nice mirror smooth paint finish.

94BULLITT · Dec 24, 2016

robertm said:
I often wonder why a composite wouldn't be the way to go. Some of these new materials are so strong. Even if the composite was overlaid with an aluminum skin to receive paint if the composite wasn't best for a nice mirror smooth paint finish.

I was thinking about compostie that was reinforced with aluminum.

sld · Dec 24, 2016

robertm said:
I often wonder why a composite wouldn't be the way to go. Some of these new materials are so strong. Even if the composite was overlaid with an aluminum skin to receive paint if the composite wasn't best for a nice mirror smooth paint finish.

Composites are very problematic. If you are worried about galvanic corrosion between steel and aluminum, introduce carbon fiber and the issue escalates rapidly.

Carbon fiber has limited uses. My experience is in aircraft and they are great for compound contours like fairings. But, the process of the layup and cure is pretty labor intensive vs. the metal stamping currently done on vehicles. I'll be very surprised to see carbon fiber make it to the auto industry in any great volume, at least in my lifetime.

Think they are so great? Google the Lear 85. Bombardier, parent company of Learjet, took a 1.2 BILLION dollar write off to kill that program. On jets that size, development costs for a successful program are closer to 300 million. Besides poor management, composites were the main obstacle with building an airplane that could be certified for that program.

TMGT · Dec 25, 2016

Everytime I think about composite panels I envision the Chevy dually fenders from the early 2000's that are missing large chunks and flapping around going down the road. Seems to be a lot around my area.

MinnesotaEric · Dec 25, 2016

robertm said:
I often wonder why a composite wouldn't be the way to go. Some of these new materials are so strong. Even if the composite was overlaid with an aluminum skin to receive paint if the composite wasn't best for a nice mirror smooth paint finish.

Racing has taught me to never ever trust any mission critical composite part. The carbon fiber part looks fine until it just suddenly shreds.

TMGT · Dec 25, 2016

EricTheOracle said:
Racing has taught me to never ever trust any mission critical composite part. The carbon fiber part looks fine until it just suddenly shreds.

What type of racing?

Steve1300 · Dec 25, 2016

And, with the change to composites other than fiberglass, there is a learning curve required in composite repairs. It is never cheap to repair damage to composite structures.

At least, with aluminum and steel, even a do-it-yourselfer can handle it.

We are seeing aircraft flight control surfaces and propeller blades made of composites, and there have been severe problems to overcome.

dragoneggs · Dec 26, 2016

sld said:
Composites are very problematic. If you are worried about galvanic corrosion between steel and aluminum, introduce carbon fiber and the issue escalates rapidly.

Carbon fiber has limited uses. My experience is in aircraft and they are great for compound contours like fairings. But, the process of the layup and cure is pretty labor intensive vs. the metal stamping currently done on vehicles. I'll be very surprised to see carbon fiber make it to the auto industry in any great volume, at least in my lifetime.

Think they are so great? Google the Lear 85. Bombardier, parent company of Learjet, took a 1.2 BILLION dollar write off to kill that program. On jets that size, development costs for a successful program are closer to 300 million. Besides poor management, composites were the main obstacle with building an airplane that could be certified for that program.

Composites such as Glass or Carbon Fiber are difficult and expensive to repair and not a lot of people have experience. They also don't absorb energy like metals making crash safety an issue. A major benefit of carbon fiber in aerostructures is fatigue and corrosion. Composites don't fatigue like aluminum and this means the differential cabin pressure can be much higher vs. aluminum making a much more comfortable environment especially on long haul flights. The humidity can be much higher as well. If anyone has flown a 787 long distance they know what I am talking about.

As sld mentioned, mating aluminum and carbon fiber needs careful design attention. Often titanium is used instead of aluminum to mitigate galvanic issues but this is an expensive and usually heavier option.

I suspect composite usage in ground vehicles will continue to increase especially as new manufacturing processes are developed and refined. Additive manufacturing is changing things as we speak.