Single remote with float for top link

[aarolar]

So LD1s thread has motivated me and I'm interested in setting up something similar to what he has done but with a single valve for a hydraulic top link. I have virtually the exact same tractor as he does and I am wanting some help picking the correct valve, I looked briefly but there are so many different styles I have trouble making an informed decision. The biggest thing I require is a float for mowing and working a harrow but also the adjustability would be fantastic for pulling a subsoiler or my root rake. My MX4800 has a 9.5gpm flow.

 

[aarolar]

Kinda looks like this here may be the ticket.

Shopping

#220125 at bailey's incase the link doesn't work.

 

[LD1]

Certainly looks like that valve would work.

Like I said, in a single spool you have slot more options.

Something 10-15 GPM is about perfect. Not too big and not too small. The 1/2" work ports are perfect size.

Basically you need to make sure the following...
4-way valve with 4th position float......Check
10-15 GPM.,......,................. Check
Power beyond............ Check
Tandem center............Check.

That's the short list. There are dozens of valves that fit that. Pick your price and brand of preference. Don't forget the PB cartridge which is usually sold separately with whatever you choose

 

[aarolar]

OK good now I still need some help with the plumbing I've been studying this for hours and I'm still not sure about it. I understand a open center system but I'm still fuzzy on how the PB works differently.

 

[aarolar]

Doing some more research I see prince has a product configurator where I can select all the options I want on that valve then it spits out a number I can give to a dealer to get a custom valve to my specs.

 

[aarolar]

OK more reading I think I understand it finally see if I'm there.

The PB from the loader will feed the inlet on the remote, then the outlet on the remote valve goes to the tank and the PB on the remote goes back to the 3pt.

 

[LD1]

^^^^^ you got it.

Our tractors are what they call open center systems. That means it's a positive displacement pump. So it's always trying to pump fluid weather or not you are using it.

The valves are open center, so that when not in use, the oil just passes freely through and on to the next valve. So it's a series setup. Cannot use Tee's. Because the fluid will take the path of least resistance.

Well, the tank port of valves isn't designed for pressure. Thus the use of a power beyond. So think of the series of valves, being pressure port is inlet and PB port is outlet that goes to next valves inlet.

The tank port is still used, but only for return flow when using the cylinder working ports.

The tank line can be tee'd in.

As our tractors are set up, pump pressure feeds loader inlet, PB from there goes to 3ph. You are simply inserting the valve between the two. So PB from loader will feed new valve, PB from new valve will feed 3ph. And tank port of new valve can tee'd back to loader tank line.

Tank lines are the only thing that can be tee'd together.

 

[aarolar]

^^^^^ you got it.

Our tractors are what they call open center systems. That means it's a positive displacement pump. So it's always trying to pump fluid weather or not you are using it.

The valves are open center, so that when not in use, the oil just passes freely through and on to the next valve. So it's a series setup. Cannot use Tee's. Because the fluid will take the path of least resistance.

Well, the tank port of valves isn't designed for pressure. Thus the use of a power beyond. So think of the series of valves, being pressure port is inlet and PB port is outlet that goes to next valves inlet.

The tank port is still used, but only for return flow when using the cylinder working ports.

The tank line can be tee'd in.

As our tractors are set up, pump pressure feeds loader inlet, PB from there goes to 3ph. You are simply inserting the valve between the two. So PB from loader will feed new valve, PB from new valve will feed 3ph. And tank port of new valve can tee'd back to loader tank line.

Tank lines are the only thing that can be tee'd together.

Amazing how any hours it took before that finally clicked in my head so simple once I figured it out.

 

[LD1]

Yep, understanding is powerful.

In many ways, a closed center system with a variable displacement pump, like some older deere's, are simpler systems for modification. Because can simply be tee'd anywhere for pressure. But adds complexity and cost to the pump with unloader valves and all.

 

[aarolar]

Now help me with this that valve I have chosen, where is the float on it is it in the center float all the time or does it detent at one extreme for the float? If it floats in the middle that would mean I could never hold a fixed position when I wanted.

 

[LD1]

That valve you linked dont show it as being a float valve. It shows 4-way (which is what you want for a DA cylinder, 3-way would only have 1 cylinder port for a single acting cylinder), but it lists it being a 3 position valve. That would be neutral, one direction, other direction. You need a 4-position valve to give the 4th position float detent.

Looking at the prince PDF for the RD41 series valve http://www.baileyhydraulics.com/pdf/ValvesRD4100.pdf

The prince # you would need would be a RD412DDxxCx ....with the x's representing whatever option you want for those features.

Baileys website isnt the easiest to navigate. At quick glance I didnt see them list any 4th position float valves, but I always just call them and talk to them in person. For that RD41 series, they can get whatever you want. But they just list one valve in that series instead of all the possible combinations. But the keys are 4th position float and tandem center.

On an open center valve, there is true open center....which indeed will not hold a load as both cylinder ports open back to tank when in neutral. Key word you are looking for is tandem. It might say tandem center, or tandem spool or something. But tandem means work ports get isolated so it holds the load. And only the Pressure port is "open center" to either the tank or PB ports.

 

[aarolar]

That valve you linked dont show it as being a float valve. It shows 4-way (which is what you want for a DA cylinder, 3-way would only have 1 cylinder port for a single acting cylinder), but it lists it being a 3 position valve. That would be neutral, one direction, other direction. You need a 4-position valve to give the 4th position float detent.

Looking at the prince PDF for the RD41 series valve http://www.baileyhydraulics.com/pdf/ValvesRD4100.pdf

The prince # you would need would be a RD412DDxxCx ....with the x's representing whatever option you want for those features.

Baileys website isnt the easiest to navigate. At quick glance I didnt see them list any 4th position float valves, but I always just call them and talk to them in person. For that RD41 series, they can get whatever you want. But they just list one valve in that series instead of all the possible combinations. But the keys are 4th position float and tandem center.

On an open center valve, there is true open center....which indeed will not hold a load as both cylinder ports open back to tank when in neutral. Key word you are looking for is tandem. It might say tandem center, or tandem spool or something. But tandem means work ports get isolated so it holds the load. And only the Pressure port is "open center" to either the tank or PB ports.

Yes like I said prince has that configurator on their website I can enter all that information and it spits out the part number I need. I'll go through and do that then call bailey's or search the web for that part number.

 

[Xfaxman]

How about this one? 1 SPOOL 8 GPM PRINCE MB11G5C1 DA FLOAT VALVE

Also consider a two spool valve for future options: 2 SPOOL 8 GPM PRINCE MB21GB5C1 DA VALVE W/FLOAT

 

[aarolar]

How about this one? 1 SPOOL 8 GPM PRINCE MB11G5C1 DA FLOAT VALVE

View attachment 493617

Also consider a two spool valve for future options: 2 SPOOL 8 GPM PRINCE MB21GB5C1 DA VALVE W/FLOAT

View attachment 493618

I'm at 9.5GPM so that would be pushing it pretty good at only 8GPM. I am actually thinking about doing two spools except doing one on the loader handle for a 3rd function and one mounted on the rear for a remote.

 

[Xfaxman]

9.5 GPM is important for hydraulic motors. For a hydraulic top link, most guys insert a flow restrictor and use small diameter hoses, so it would work OK.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

9.5 GPM is important for hydraulic motors. For a hydraulic top link, most guys insert a flow restrictor and use small diameter hoses.

While this is true, the body of the valve needs to flow what the pump puts out or you are restricting the flow on a constant basis and that ends not so good for the pump. He really needs to consider a 10GPM valve at the minimum.

 

[LD1]

Agreed.

Oil is flowing through that valve any time the tractor is running. It is what supplies the 3ph via PB.