Snow Attachments Snow PUMP

   / Snow PUMP #51  
You can operate the fuel shut-off with a cable or linkage and not need 12 volt power for anything other than the starter. The 727 would have been used on the 1st generation Dodges. The 2nd generation used the RE46 I believe. I don't have my books anymore to confirm the number. The 960# was a dry weight of just the engine.

I would pass on the 24-valves to keep it simple and reliable.
 
   / Snow PUMP #52  
If you want close to 300hp, and you want a diesel with no electronics, your choices will be very limited correct? Can the old mechanical cummins be turned up enough for that much power?

If you keeping going from gas to diesel, diesel to gas, that also keeps changing your gearing correct? A gas engine is going to make peak power at higher rpms, a diesel will be lower. I don't know which one would be better suited for a hydraulic pump if you went that route.
 
   / Snow PUMP #53  
Just reading this all through for the first time. At least on this thread. Post #23 talked about balancing a fan assembly. I built a new fan for an IHC 80 snowblower using a Browning hub for the center as I knew it would tighten onto the shaft and still be easy to take off. It also made the fan easy to balance as all I had to do was take it to a tire shop and have them balance the fan on a tire balancer. The tire shop was so intrigued by what I had done they balanced the fan for free. I carefully cut and measured all my steel and made sure I used the same amount of welding rod on each "leg" of the fan and I only needed 1 ounce to balance the whole thing.

I would not be scared to use a 24 valve cummins. They are dead reliable as long as you don't let the fuel pressure into the injection fall below 5 psi. Put a chip in it and you'll easily get the hp you want. A 12 valve would work ok too. You just need to change the fuel plate. They are heavy though.

I'm enjoying this thread. I love building stuff like this.
 
   / Snow PUMP #54  
I would not be scared to use a 24 valve cummins. They are dead reliable as long as you don't let the fuel pressure into the injection fall below 5 psi. Put a chip in it and you'll easily get the hp you want. A 12 valve would work ok too. You just need to change the fuel plate. They are heavy though.

My reference to the reliability of the 24-valve is due to my previous experience with the FIL's truck. It's had 2 fuel pumps and one injection pump, 2 crankshaft position sensors caused by the two piece tone ring on the crankshaft coming loose. I put the first fuel pump on it and both sensors, and between the first and second sensors we dropped the oil pan and cleaned and Loctited the screws that had come loose that hold it to the crankshaft. The truck was given to my BIL shortly after that and he put the second fuel pump and the injection pump on it. I had warned him about low fuel pressure and he needed to put a gauge on it. Had to learn the hard way. The two piece tone rings went away in 2000.
 
   / Snow PUMP
  • Thread Starter
#55  
If you want close to 300hp, and you want a diesel with no electronics, your choices will be very limited correct? Can the old mechanical cummins be turned up enough for that much power?

If you keeping going from gas to diesel, diesel to gas, that also keeps changing your gearing correct? A gas engine is going to make peak power at higher rpms, a diesel will be lower. I don't know which one would be better suited for a hydraulic pump if you went that route.

i think a gas engine like the triton puts out nice power as well as torque, for a pump the hp rpm is not that significant but for a mechanical solution which must UFN acomodate the current rig being used it's different story because on that i cannot gear down past the existing 2.5:1. There are other issues as well, see other replies ref: die-by-wire.
 
   / Snow PUMP
  • Thread Starter
#56  
Just reading this all through for the first time. At least on this thread. Post #23 talked about balancing a fan assembly. I built a new fan for an IHC 80 snowblower using a Browning hub for the center as I knew it would tighten onto the shaft and still be easy to take off. It also made the fan easy to balance as all I had to do was take it to a tire shop and have them balance the fan on a tire balancer. The tire shop was so intrigued by what I had done they balanced the fan for free. I carefully cut and measured all my steel and made sure I used the same amount of welding rod on each "leg" of the fan and I only needed 1 ounce to balance the whole thing.

I would not be scared to use a 24 valve cummins. They are dead reliable as long as you don't let the fuel pressure into the injection fall below 5 psi. Put a chip in it and you'll easily get the hp you want. A 12 valve would work ok too. You just need to change the fuel plate. They are heavy though.

I'm enjoying this thread. I love building stuff like this.


You have not seem MY welds yet :) They look like anthills instead of beads!!! But it's an interesting idea which i guess could be cheaper and possible up to a certain size.
 
   / Snow PUMP
  • Thread Starter
#57  
I would not be scared to use a 24 valve cummins. They are dead reliable as long as you don't let the fuel pressure into the injection fall below 5 psi. Put a chip in it and you'll easily get the hp you want. A 12 valve would work ok too. You just need to change the fuel plate. They are heavy though.

My reference to the reliability of the 24-valve is due to my previous experience with the FIL's truck. It's had 2 fuel pumps and one injection pump, 2 crankshaft position sensors caused by the two piece tone ring on the crankshaft coming loose. I put the first fuel pump on it and both sensors, and between the first and second sensors we dropped the oil pan and cleaned and Loctited the screws that had come loose that hold it to the crankshaft. The truck was given to my BIL shortly after that and he put the second fuel pump and the injection pump on it. I had warned him about low fuel pressure and he needed to put a gauge on it. Had to learn the hard way. The two piece tone rings went away in 2000.

My driveway is 2200 feet long excluding a roller-coaster section in a ravine. I can always call a contractor to clear it but once I have started moving my rig it becomes a critical mission. If i get stuck blocking the road it immediately becomes an extremely expensive proposition just to get everything back to square one. My deutz engine needs no electricity AT ALL, EVER. I do use an electric starter but once that engine starts it don't stop just like that. That's exactly what I want in my case. Actually I would like to see more people in the industry take up this critical-mission line, there might be a nice extra market behind it :)) I'm certainly going toward that road even for my cars, I don't even want to see electrical steering assist, that's why I bought an older Tundra.

My son talked me into trying a Duramax for this project, it is a very impressive engine! I was almost sold too, but when a deal fell through I took that to be a sign and pulled the plug on ALL die-by-wire engines. SINCE then I have come across all kinds of stories about limping-mode horrors costing people thousands of dollars FOR NOTHING in some cases. Yesterday I almost bagged another 12-valve 6bt. I'll keep looking for a cheap latter P-Pump model. I would then raise the power a touch, would really want 250 at least. Apparently you can also "P-Pump" a 24-valve Cummins but I'm not to clear on that story yet, not about whether or not such a conversion would mean LIBERATION from cheap 5 dollar digital cards made in China.
 
   / Snow PUMP #58  
Could you review again what you are trying to accomplish? I looked at the first post in this thread and your goals did not pop out at me. I do remember somewhere you saying you did not like the way your original setup handled and maneuvered. Does it throw the snow far enough? Or it bogs down and you are going to keep the blower setup you have, just drive it with a larger engine?

I think you want to change out your primer mover also to a truck?

Your original design must have been fairly successful to be used for 8 years.
 
   / Snow PUMP
  • Thread Starter
#59  
Could you review again what you are trying to accomplish? I looked at the first post in this thread and your goals did not pop out at me. I do remember somewhere you saying you did not like the way your original setup handled and maneuvered. Does it throw the snow far enough? Or it bogs down and you are going to keep the blower setup you have, just drive it with a larger engine?

I think you want to change out your primer mover also to a truck?

Your original design must have been fairly successful to be used for 8 years.

The existing 'frankenstein' was designed to make small and fast work of a few inches of snow at @ 10-15 km/h. This is what it was designed for, what it was geared for. It has done this but a few unforseens have messed up the glory (not that I'm not happy with its otherwise enviable success):

1 - The loader's 7000 hour Perkins engine is not a cold-starter. I have to preheat it. This can take 15-25 minutes.

2 - Even a -25 the blower's Deutz engine starts like a hand grenade but my mixed 12/24vdc electrical system needs to be preheated. People had warned me not go go electrical at the time but I was a smartass. Somewhere in the cited pile is the wiring diagram, just to put that into perspective.

3- On a bad day after a storm the heater itself may not start because it's full of snow and the ignition wires are soaked. I may have to light it off with an oil soaked rag on a stick (not easy in a blizzard). And since it too is electrical even beyond the ignition I had to rip its complex automation guts out reducing it to basics like one wire for the motor and one for the ignition. This also means that I gotta watch which one I plug in first because the wrong sequence usually results in a light-off with the whole 300,000 btu unit is three feet in the air.

4 - As soon as I encounter heavy snow or even just a few inches of really wet snow I have to slow down to a crawl, like most blowers do all of the time. Global warming is upon us, the crisp and clear winters are morphing into more and more mixed blessings and messy storms. I would have to increase the reduction but that would also mean that I'd have to slow down generally but I'm not the least bit interested in spending more than the already large amount of time on operation.

5 - The throw distance is OK but I could use more, I mean even with dry snow, so before I even look at a wrench the HP goes waaaay up.

6 - The handling issues are what they are, if I increase the weight they will worsen but they are not limiting. I can still pull studded tires and tire-chains out of my sleeve as I haven't done so yet. The municipal rig where i live was a standard self-powered one using the same 426 loader model, THAT was limiting, they kept splitting the front rims. Someone I know built one and his 426 could never lift it, 15 grand out the window. Mine flies in comparison, there IS a huge hole in the market for self powered blowers that don't need the largest loaders nor require the bucket to be removed.

I'll be 73 in a few weeks and I took the decision to make my work MUCH easier while also improving the operational performance so that I end up with a turnkey system. Under ideal circumstances it takes and hour and a half between walking up to the monster and finally shutting it down, on bad days I've seen 3 hours just to get going. This is what I'm going to do away with.

The exact configuration will depend on what I find along the wonderful scrounging pathway :)

A
As a minimum it'll mean a new engine on the existing rig, with few other changes that may still lead to further redesign the year after if it works out. This is what I would call the project floor. The engine is close to being bagged (for the second time now), I'll be looking at a Cummins bt6 in a few days. The current engine will sell for more than I'm paying for this, leaving some margin for a rebuild if necessary, power upgrades remaining possible ad infinitum.

B
A new more hassle-free platform is also a possibility, this could be a ford f350 that I have eyes on right now, a older theft recovery with no miles and only mechanicals in front of the firewall, almost made to order, a steal this time around as well :)

C
If I do go the truck way i'll first strip down to a rolling frame and see what and how I can cannibalize to complete an otherwise elegant mechanical solution. On paper this will revolve around a drive-shaft through the cabin on the passenger side to a blower fan completely on the right side i.e. a short auger only on the left. A 48" inch fan is likely as this is the only one that would jive with a shaft exiting the front roughly just over the front right frame rail. One looming obstacle being that I might not be able to get this there at a height of about 27 inches.

D
If unable to execute a clean mechanical solution (not really interested in convulsive horror shows) or if I should premptively happen into a cheap pump/motor set, then the hydraulic scenario steps to the fore. I don't expect to know this or make the final decision until I have tried the ideas on the rolling frame.

That's where it's at this morning, the plan of course changes continuously always juggling to keep all options open.
 
   / Snow PUMP #60  
Thanks for that summary. Things that come to my mind;

Diesel engines are heavy, and hard to start in cold weather. The older non-electronic diesels seem to be harder to start than the newer electronic diesels. So it looks like you are backing yourself in a corner and not helping your cold weather starting problems very much.

You could put a more powerful gas engine on the unit you have now. It would start easier and be lighter or close to the same weight as the diesel engine you are using now. You said something about you can't change the gearing for a higher rpm gas engine, but could you change just the auger rpm and let the fan turn at the higher speed?

I see a lot of problems with the driveshaft running through the cab idea. I see a lot of important stuff in the way, I don't think there is that much room through there. Usually the heater core is on the pass side along with the blower fan, wiring, and you will have to sneak by the inner fender and the radiator. It will be tricky. What if you ran it down the outside of the cab by the pass side door? A piece of channel laying across the frame in the back and another across the front frame rails(ditch the front bumper) with pillow block bearings on the ends for support. That offset would give you plenty of opportunity to gear up or down also.
 

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