LK3054 Main Fuse burning out at start-up

[drassists]

The main fuse on my 1994 LK3054 keeps burning up during start-up. Also, I've burned out a couple batteries from overcharging --I replaced the regulator and alternator but am still having issues with the battery. The battery charge light on the instrument panel has also blinked on & off a couple times. I'm not sure if all this is connected to the main fuse issue or not, but seems likely since it pops during start up. There isn't any pattern that I can figure out to the fuse blowing (ie, only with newly charged battery, only during cold start or after using the glow plug, etc) and it seems like it is some kind of short. I've already checked the obvious (frayed wire, etc) with no luck. If anyone has experience or thoughts on this, I would appreciate the help.

 

[Looking4new]

Take a good hard look at your switch. Kioti's have had switch problems in the past. Maybe just for ***** and giggles squirt some WD40 or fluid film into the key hole and work it back and forth then try it again.

 

[ritcheyvs]

I presume you are referring to the 60 amp fuse in the wire bundle near the starter? Lets be clear about that first.

When, precisely does the fuse blow during startup? When you first turn the key to ON? When you turn the key to GLOW (or pass through GLOW on the way to crank)? When you start to crank the engine? Immediately after the engine starts to run on its own (vs being turned by the starter)? After the engine has run for several seconds or more?

Why and when did you change the alternator and regulator? What issues are you having with the battery?

The approach I would take is first to check out the charge circuit by monitoring the voltage at the battery. I say this only because you indicate some unspecified problems with the battery and alternator.

All of the other fuses are smaller than the main fuse (they blow at fewer amps) so it is unlikely a short on one of those fuse-protected circuits is the problem. That narrows it down to just a few circuits. but the actual wires could be routed anywhere.

The only unfused loads that draw anywhere near the main fuse capacity are the glow plugs; maybe one of them is bad and draws too much current. It your tractor will start OK warm without glow plugs, try disconnecting the spade connector at the back of the glow plug bus bar, with the engine stopped, of course. Make sure the lead from the wiring harness cannot short out and then try operating the tractor normally to see if the problem is gone. Of course you'll need to reconnect the glow plugs for the next cold start.

Your answers to exactly when the fuse blows may help isolate the cause. Otherwise, it's trial and error: Disconnect something and see if the problem stops, which requires patience with random problems.

I would urge you to think and test your way through this vs just swapping stuff. That's expensive and it's hard to know if an intermittent problem is really cured. Because, problems are often caused by the last thing you fixed.

Scott

 

[DieselBound]

Short in the battery? Low-hanging fruit. Check that battery thoroughly.

Keep in mind that new parts can be bad. It's one reason one should be cautious about swapping in new parts w/o a very good reason for doing so: one problem can be multiplied and then it's off chasing one's tail.

 

[drassists]

First, the main fuse that I have is 30 amp; I'll check again with my service folks to make sure that's correct. Since they sold me the replacement and that was the existing size, I assume it is. The fuse sometimes has blown immediately on ignition and also after cranking for a few seconds. I also thought it might be a glow plug issue but it has also blown when I haven't used the glow plug. I replaced the alt and regulator because I was overcharging and burning batteries. From what I've been reading, I'm going to next go after the ignition switch and see if that fixes the problem. Thanks for the help

 

[ritcheyvs]

Please clarify "immediately on ignition". Does that mean when the key switch is first turned to the ON position? (vs GLOW or CRANK).

When you "haven't used the glow plug", what exactly, does that mean? E.g. you turned the switch immediately to crank? The glow light didn't come on? What?

By the way, I assumed (wrongly) that the fuse was 60 amp like the CKs and DKs but a 30 amp main fuse is correct for your LK, according to the online parts list at MIE.

There could be an intermittent ignition switch issue that would restart the glow sequence but I don't think that's the main problem here if the fuse blows shortly after startup when the plugs should be glowing anyway.

I don't have a service manual for the LKs so I'n assuming they work like earlier CKs and DKs; that could be wrong.

 

[DieselBound]

I replaced the alt and regulator because I was overcharging and burning batteries.

And are you sure the battery you have in there now isn't compromised?

When you turn the key to ON do you manage to hear the fuel shutoff relay activate- hear it click?

 

[Patches]

3054's don't have a fuel solenoid and you don't go through the glow plug section of the switch if just cranking the engine. Using the glow plugs require you to turn the ignition switch to the LEFT and holding it there for as long as you think you need, then turning key to the extreme right to crank

 

[ritcheyvs]

Patches, Thanks for explanation. I found this schematic online that was supposed to be for a 3054 but I guess this isn't correct. Without reliable technical data (like a schematic) I probably can't help the OP much.

By the way, does the 3054 have an electrical shutoff solenoid (as in the schematic) or a mechanical shutoff cable?

 

[Patches]

Patches, Thanks for explanation. I found this schematic online that was supposed to be for a 3054 but I guess this isn't correct. Without reliable technical data (like a schematic) I probably can't help the OP much.

By the way, does the 3054 have an electrical shutoff solenoid (as in the schematic) or a mechanical shutoff cable?

This is an old school diesel; no solenoid, cable shut off

 

[drassists]

"immediately on ignition" should be "immediately on turning the switch" - other times it blows after cranking. When cold starting, I turn the key until the glow plug indicates it's ready; after running it and the machine is warm, I don't. The fuse has blown in both situations.

 

[ritcheyvs]

drassists: Is your 3054 as described by Patches or like CK/DK models where a glow light goes on in the instrument panel when you turn the switch to ON and then goes out when it's ready to crank to start the engine? I would not be surprised if there was more than one version of the electrical system.

Sorry for so many questions.

 

[Patches]

Not sure the OP's machine is identical, though it should be. The indicator on my '04 is just a coiled resistance wire which glows red when the plugs are operating and is enclosed in a protective housing on the right side of the dash board adjacent to the switch that operates the directional signals. Hope this helps, as it is not a light enclosed in the tach pod. I told you this was an old style diesel tractor, lol

If you go directly to crank, form the off position of the switch, you do not excite the glow plugs; to do so you must turn the keyswitch in the (opposite) direction

 

[Coyote machine]

Wow, this sounds like a fun one!
Let's try a different approach. Let's see if we can determine why you've had an ongoing 'overcharging of your batteries' issue, that seems to still be happening, correct?
Give us the battery voltage present with the tractor running, by reading across the battery posts, NOT the cable ends attached to the battery.
Give us some history on your tractor too. How many hours on it, and how recently did you install the new v-reg and alternator, and battery. Were all replaced items new from Kioti, (except battery)? What brand and rating on the new battery?
And, what condition are the battery ends, at both the battery and at the location where the ground cable attaches to the frame/chassis?
What is the condition of the wires at the starter, hot and other wires. What is the condition at the fuse box and it's fuses. Is there any corrosion anywhere in the paths I've mentioned.
Are there any loose connections anywhere above?
After answering the above questions run a jumper cable (from a pair of heavy duty jumper cables) from the negative battery post down to a bare metal ground on the tractor. Do this from the negative post of the battery, with the normal ground cable disconnected, temporarily. If the problem goes away, your negative ground cable is bad and not grounding your battery properly. This type of problem with a bad cable can also happen on the positive side of the battery. We'll get to that later if needed.

 

[davehunt00]

I believe this is the correct electrical schema for this tractor (I have the older Kioti LK 3054 as well). This was in another TBN thread but matches the one in my owner's manual.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/files/kioti-owning-operating/102659d1210816395-lk3054-alternator-diag2-jpg

 

[Coyote machine]

I believe this is the correct electrical schema for this tractor (I have the older Kioti LK 3054 as well). This was in another TBN thread but matches the one in my owner's manual.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/files/kioti-owning-operating/102659d1210816395-lk3054-alternator-diag2-jpg

Assuming the diagram you supplied is the correct one for the tractor in question; from what I see, in a quick glance the generator and fuseable link and starter are tied together; meaning if the starter draws too much amperage on cranking the engine the fuseable link will blow, protecting the electrical system from burning up.
*I don't see a voltage regulator in the diagram,(CORRECTION: Posts below correct this error- there IS a regulator, at the right lower side of the schematic), but I do see a generator, which is not the same as an alternator.
We need the OP to chime in here on questions posed above, and whether this is the correct electrical diagram for his tractor....

 

[Patches]

The regulator is to the left of the glow plug representation. The schematics for these old 3054s were never updated when they changed from generators to alternators, among many other changes they made. Owners were left pretty much to themselves interpreting issues, especially if they bought them private sale. The manuals are sketchy, at best

 

[ritcheyvs]

Patches: The schematic shows two glow positions; one feeds the glow plugs directly and the other feeds through the indicator you described earlier. Is that how the tractor is really wired? If so, what is the purpose of the two different glow positions?

CM: The main power to the starter winding does not go through the fuse but the recharge current from the generator/alternator does, as does all power to various loads (e.g. lights). See Patches comment on the regulator. Back in the day, many alternators used external mechanical regulators that "buzzed" to regulate current pulses to the rotor, just like old generators.

As an aside, updating old tech data is not a high priority for Kioti, apparently. My DK45s has the newer engine (same engine as in SE) but all available publications only shoe old engine.

 

[Patches]

ritcheyvs; There is only one way to excite the glow plugs and that is through the resistor described earlier (left turn on the keyswitch). As stated, Kioti was/is not high on technical manuals; something about Korenglish, although their parts manual seems reasonable accurate (would have to be if you want to sell parts).

 

[Coyote machine]

The *regulator is to the left of the glow plug representation. The schematics for these old 3054s were never updated when they changed from generators to alternators, among many other changes they made. Owners were left pretty much to themselves interpreting issues, especially if they bought them private sale. The manuals are sketchy, at best

I missed that. Thanks for pointing it out.

Patches: The schematic shows two glow positions; one feeds the glow plugs directly and the other feeds through the indicator you described earlier. Is that how the tractor is really wired? If so, what is the purpose of the two different glow positions?

CM: The main power to the starter winding does not go through the fuse but the recharge current from the generator/alternator does, as does all power to various loads (e.g. lights). See Patches comment on the regulator. Back in the day, many alternators used external mechanical regulators that "buzzed" to regulate current pulses to the rotor, just like old generators.

<snip>

I seem to be firing on none today...:confused3:

Now all we need is OP input...