What would you do differently if you built a new shop

[ovrszd]

And CHRISTMAS LIGHTING!

TBN Christmas 2017 at "overszd" shop.

You guys are all Jealous!!!!

Come on over. We have a Christmas Party every year. 40-50 people. A few more won't be noticed. Bring a "gag gift". The favorite gift this year was a Man Thong.

Most important shop feature is the ability to party in it.

 

[PJSprog]

Most important shop feature is the ability to party in it.

Hear, hear!

 

[/pine]

As a former roofer skylights are GREAT, provides lot's of income for patching small leaks...

The main reason there are leaks in roofing is because of poor application and or design...
I just replaced the shingle roof on our cabin that was over 40 years old...not one of the 6 skylights have leaked around the curb/flashing etc...the only leak issue we've ever had was because of a cracked dome from a fallen branch.
Have probably saved thousands of $'s in electricity over the years...

 

[9973720wb19]

Great question. I which I had asked it.

Things I wish I did:
1) pre-piped air throughout - agree wish I had the compressor in some type of closet or small room
2) an "I" beam running top of first floor ceiling level. supported by block (I guess) so I can attached a winch to lift heavy things.
3) installed a lift that set into the concrete floor - so not wasted floor space when not in use
4) i like keeping ALL of my equipment in good shape and inside- I total underestimated the amount of floor space my Brush Mower, Box Blade, Finish Mower, Snow Blade, etc. take. plan and measure. My goal WAS to be able to get to everything without moving something. I almost made it...
5) I agree with the guy that said put the main door on the sunny side. I did not think of that. I maintenance in Nov (which includes a good washing of each piece) and it's cold all day on the side i work from

Things I'm glad I did:
1) 12 foot high garage door with two 9 foot garage doors - one on one side and one in the back.
2) 22 foot or so 1st floor ceilings
3) outside water - drilled well
4) Nice finished on the interior walls and exterior
5) lots of windows
6) heat!!!
7) built in cabinets - upper and lower - with counter
8) a second floor to storage the small stuff
9) floor drains
10) front porch - nice to take a brake - have some benches out there
11) concrete pad leading up to main garage door. sooo much better than stone that gets muddy. I had stone and when i blow off grass from the equipment, it grows in the stones. pad solved the problem

 

[ovrszd]

Great question. I which I had asked it.

Things I wish I did:
1) pre-piped air throughout - agree wish I had the compressor in some type of closet or small room
2) an "I" beam running top of first floor ceiling level. supported by block (I guess) so I can attached a winch to lift heavy things.
3) installed a lift that set into the concrete floor - so not wasted floor space when not in use
4) i like keeping ALL of my equipment in good shape and inside- I total underestimated the amount of floor space my Brush Mower, Box Blade, Finish Mower, Snow Blade, etc. take. plan and measure. My goal WAS to be able to get to everything without moving something. I almost made it...
5) I agree with the guy that said put the main door on the sunny side. I did not think of that. I maintenance in Nov (which includes a good washing of each piece) and it's cold all day on the side i work from

Things I'm glad I did:
1) 12 foot high garage door with two 9 foot garage doors - one on one side and one in the back.
2) 22 foot or so 1st floor ceilings
3) outside water - drilled well
4) Nice finished on the interior walls and exterior
5) lots of windows
6) heat!!!
7) built in cabinets - upper and lower - with counter
8) a second floor to storage the small stuff
9) floor drains
10) front porch - nice to take a brake - have some benches out there
11) concrete pad leading up to main garage door. sooo much better than stone that gets muddy. I had stone and when i blow off grass from the equipment, it grows in the stones. pad solved the problem

How big is your building?? Got any pics??

 

[NewfieDan]

In something as large as an 80x80 shop look at putting in a separate room for compressor/bathroom. Above this room look at also using this space for storage. Make the roof strong enough to support what you may want to put up there.

Look at 14-16ft celings. If doing it over, I would like 16 ft ceilings with 12 ft wide doors 14ft high. This would allow me to get really big items in to work on them. Our fifth wheel is about 13-1/2ft high. It also gives you room to put a full size truck on a hoist.

As an electrician, I can never have enough plugs on separate circuits. I also put in some low level work lights for a buddy once. He was a mechanic and hated trouble lights. So, I put in some lights about 2ft off the floor. This eliminated the need for trouble lights when doing things like brakes. They were on a separate switch so could be turned on independently.

Floor drains would a plus but may not be allowed in your area. Where I used to live they weren't.

I would not use wire mesh in the floor. I would only use rebar, placed on stools or bricks to make sure it is in the slab, not sitting under the slab. I have seen many slabs that have mesh, but the wire has broken and slab has severe cracks. The slab I had poured in Alberta had rebar placed every 12-14", and after 10yrs it has still not cracked. It was also a minimum of 5" thick, not the usual 3-4". It had my 2500 diesel on it a few times and never cracked.

Think about a french drain at the entrance to help keeep water out, to keep it from running/blowing under the door. I Wouldn't put grooves at the bottom of the door. This is a place for water to collect and ice to form in winter. Where I am now, all garage doors closed on slight grades to keep water from standing and freezing door closed.

 

[EddieWalker]

The main reason there are leaks in roofing is because of poor application and or design...
I just replaced the shingle roof on our cabin that was over 40 years old...not one of the 6 skylights have leaked around the curb/flashing etc...the only leak issue we've ever had was because of a cracked dome from a fallen branch.
Have probably saved thousands of $'s in electricity over the years...

I'm curious how you determined that you saved money with the skylights? Especially that much money. During daylight hours, how many lights do you turn on in a room with a skylight compared to not having a skylight? Most people are not even home when it's daylight out, but for those that are, do you normally keep your lights on?

Since a skylight offers a very low, or even no R value, how much energy are you losing through your skylight heating and cooling your home? Here in Texas, AC is the biggest expense of any home owner. Heat transfers through skylights a lot worse then a side window because of the up down properties of heat and cold air. If you have anywhere from R30 to R60 in your attic, what is it where the skylight goes through your ceiling and roof without any of that R value?

From what I understand, nobody even notices an extra light on all the time, but when you remove a skylight and insulate that area of your attic, you notice it right away when you get your energy bill!!!! And that was when we all had incandescent light bulbs. With LED bulbs, it make even less financial sense to have a skylight.

 

[Shaneard]

I'm curious how you determined that you saved money with the skylights? Especially that much money. During daylight hours, how many lights do you turn on in a room with a skylight compared to not having a skylight? Most people are not even home when it's daylight out, but for those that are, do you normally keep your lights on?

Since a skylight offers a very low, or even no R value, how much energy are you losing through your skylight heating and cooling your home? Here in Texas, AC is the biggest expense of any home owner. Heat transfers through skylights a lot worse then a side window because of the up down properties of heat and cold air. If you have anywhere from R30 to R60 in your attic, what is it where the skylight goes through your ceiling and roof without any of that R value?

From what I understand, nobody even notices an extra light on all the time, but when you remove a skylight and insulate that area of your attic, you notice it right away when you get your energy bill!!!! And that was when we all had incandescent light bulbs. With LED bulbs, it make even less financial sense to have a skylight.

Well said Eddie!

 

[ovrszd]

Well said Eddie!

And I feel the same way, in reverse, about windows. They are so efficient nowadays I just can't see building a shop without them.

Our house living room doesn't have skylights but has a good picture window. No need for the lights to be on during the day.

 

[/pine]

I'm curious how you determined that you saved money with the skylights? Especially that much money. During daylight hours, how many lights do you turn on in a room with a skylight compared to not having a skylight? Most people are not even home when it's daylight out, but for those that are, do you normally keep your lights on?

Since a skylight offers a very low, or even no R value, how much energy are you losing through your skylight heating and cooling your home? Here in Texas, AC is the biggest expense of any home owner. Heat transfers through skylights a lot worse then a side window because of the up down properties of heat and cold air. If you have anywhere from R30 to R60 in your attic, what is it where the skylight goes through your ceiling and roof without any of that R value?

From what I understand, nobody even notices an extra light on all the time, but when you remove a skylight and insulate that area of your attic, you notice it right away when you get your energy bill!!!! And that was when we all had incandescent light bulbs. With LED bulbs, it make even less financial sense to have a skylight.

You might be surprised...The cabin is in wooded mountains...only direct sunlight is in the afternoon...except on the S.W. exposure even the windows do not allow that much light...unless you are watching TV etc...even on bright sunny days a light would be necessary to do just about anything else regardless of the room you are in...

The cabin is not huge and is heated with elec. and wood...6" insulation in the walls...there is no attic, vaulted roof with clerestory wall...There is no air conditioning (don't need it)...ceiling fans do the trick with the upper windows in the clerestory wall...

Drive by the neighbors and you'll always see a light on all day long...I suppose it could be figured closer but just think of a light being turned on several times a day in four different rooms every day for over 40 years and you'll have an estimate of how much has been saved in lighting costs...

 

[ovrszd]

A 50w bulb running 10 hrs per day at 12 cents per KW cost comes to .06 cents per day. 365 days a year = $21.90. 40 years = $876.00.

This would be assuming that in their ramblings around in the house they wouldn't have more than one light on at any given time spread over 10 hours a day. I know I'm going high here.

So you've potentially saved $876 by installing 6 skylights. How much does it cost to install a skylight?

 

[Big Barn]

And I feel the same way, in reverse, about windows. They are so efficient nowadays I just can't see building a shop without them.

Our house living room doesn't have skylights but has a good picture window. No need for the lights to be on during the day.

I'm a big fan of natural lighting. It has an incredible impact on one' s well being.

Plus who here DOESN'T want to live long enough to tell our kids how to bring up THEIRS.

 

[ovrszd]

I'm a big fan of natural lighting. It has an incredible impact on one' s well being.

Plus who here DOESN'T want to live long enough to tell our kids how to bring up THEIRS.

True that!!!!

My wife asked me yesterday evening, after I had spent all day outside at the farm, what my Worldly contact had been for the day? She was implying whether I had people contact or not. She worries about that for some reason. Thinks my World is a bit small. I said I had contact with the entire World as far as I could see it. She just looked at me with that "I'd grab you by the ear if you were closer" look. :laughing:

I once slept outside for 4 months with no overhead cover of any kind. Worst part was during Full Moon.

 

[/pine]

A 50w bulb running 10 hrs per day at 12 cents per KW cost comes to .06 cents per day. 365 days a year = $21.90. 40 years = $876.00.

This would be assuming that in their ramblings around in the house they wouldn't have more than one light on at any given time spread over 10 hours a day. I know I'm going high here.

So you've potentially saved $876 by installing 6 skylights. How much does it cost to install a skylight?

Even 40 years ago when the cabin was built...natural light was the issue not saving money on electricity per se...

The property is parted by a substantial mountain river so it lies in a valley bottom with mountains on either side...the skylights were used the same way windows are in walls...to take advantage of the exposure...here it is very limited...

My comment on saving money was off the wall and really had nothing to do with the post that included it...it was about leaks...and a skylight is not much different than a window...if they are not installed properly they will leak...

FWIW...most skylights that leak...leak because of the flashing (curb mount) or the sealant in non curb mount models...

 

[Big Barn]

I prefer an all steel building, but that's just me.

I am "heat" conscious to have no use for skylights anywhere. That's why I mentioned windows, windows, windows. Good quality double glass insulated windows to minimize heat loss.

Here's a pic I just took at 11:30 a.m. on a very cloudy Missouri day with lights off.





View attachment 500393

Here's a pic I just took of my North facing shop office. Noon, gloomy March day, lights OFF.




Terry

 

[ovrszd]

Here's a pic I just took of my North facing shop office. Noon, gloomy March day, lights OFF.


View attachment 500439

Terry

You can't get no repurposing done in there!!!!

Nice room Terry.

 

[EddieWalker]

Even 40 years ago when the cabin was built...natural light was the issue not saving money on electricity per se...

The property is parted by a substantial mountain river so it lies in a valley bottom with mountains on either side...the skylights were used the same way windows are in walls...to take advantage of the exposure...here it is very limited...

My comment on saving money was off the wall and really had nothing to do with the post that included it...it was about leaks...and a skylight is not much different than a window...if they are not installed properly they will leak...

FWIW...most skylights that leak...leak because of the flashing (curb mount) or the sealant in non curb mount models...

I'm always surprised at how many windows I've taken out that have absolutely no sealant around them of any kind. Most are aluminium framed with a few nails holding them in place. Some show staining from leaking over the decades, others I didn't see anything. I think the big difference with installing a window and a skylight is that when the skylight leaks, you know it. You might never know that the window was leaking. Another challenge to a skylight over a window is that the higher up in a house that you go, the more movement you get. All houses move, taller ones move more then shorter ones and great rooms move more then anything else.

Techniques and materials are getting better, but I still run across nearly new homes with skylights that leaked.

 

[newbury]

<snip>
My comment on saving money was off the wall and really had nothing to do with the post that included it...it was about leaks...and a skylight is not much different than a window...if they are not installed properly they will leak...

FWIW...most skylights that leak...leak because of the flashing (curb mount) or the sealant in non curb mount models...

And my comment was because I've spent many hours on roofs fixing flashing which flexed, aged and leaked.

Skylights on steep roofs are usually more forgiving than roofs with little slope. But you are still putting a hole in the roof. Windows are usually vertical and it's easier to get the water to run off quickly.

 

[jack707]

High enough so I could put a lift inside it sucks changing oil laying on the floor.

 

[ovrszd]

I'm always surprised at how many windows I've taken out that have absolutely no sealant around them of any kind. Most are aluminium framed with a few nails holding them in place. Some show staining from leaking over the decades, others I didn't see anything. I think the big difference with installing a window and a skylight is that when the skylight leaks, you know it. You might never know that the window was leaking. Another challenge to a skylight over a window is that the higher up in a house that you go, the more movement you get. All houses move, taller ones move more then shorter ones and great rooms move more then anything else.

Techniques and materials are getting better, but I still run across nearly new homes with skylights that leaked.

Eddie, being a "Northerner", I just can't get past having X square foot of roof/ceiling space with no insulation. Maybe I'm missing something.