Grading Tractor and HD Box Blade vs. a small Dozer?

[Piston]

Disclaimer: I've never run a dozer before.

I recently (like yesterday) came across a small older dozer that I am thinking about buying.

I don't really "need" one but I've always wanted to own one for playing around in the dirt. (Who wouldn't?)
I would mostly use it to rebuild an old logging trail on my property, maybe clear some small saplings, and make some dirt bike trails.
I also have some grading to do after I move a fair amount of dirt and dig out some stumps. I do have a box blade that I think I can do most of this work with anyways, but....

I'm wondering how a small dozer would compare to my tractor with a heavy duty box blade? My tractor is about 6k lbs and box blade is a bit over 1,200lbs and 7' wide. I have the top N tilt setup for it as well.

The dozer is a 1973 Cat D3B with 6 way blade. I really don't know what it weighs but it's likely around 14,000lbs I'd guess? It has a 6 way blade on it. A couple of the cylinders need to be rebuilt as they are leaking hydraulic fluid. The undercarriage has been replaced "at some point" but I don't really know what to look for to evaluate an undercarriage.

This would be used as a weekend warrior machine. I understand dozers can have a lot of expensive problems and it's always a risk buying used.

Can anyone tell me how much better a small dozer would work compared to something like this D3? (Assuming it's mechanically sound).

I'll post some photos that I took yesterday of the machine.

 

[Texasmark]

Dozer, hands down!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Day and night comparison. If the D3 is sound with good undercarriage, reasonable price "to you" which is all that matters, go for it. Won't take you an hour to learn the controls, longer to learn all that you can do with it.

 

[4570Man]

When I cut my driveway I used a D3 dozer. I wasn't much of a dozer operator and it still won. With an experienced operator the dozer is going to eat your lunch. Not that surprising since it weighs more than twice as much and was designed for the task at hand.

 

[Gary Fowler]

At almost 9000 hours of use, I would expect that the undercarriage should have been rebuilt once or twice and maybe even the tracks replaced. The tracks look good as do the drive wheel cogs. I would look closely at the idlers and carriers to see if any are frozen up from setting so long as it appears to have been setting for a while.
Check out the engine, I am sure it will use a bit of oil and likely smoke a little with blue smoke with that many hours unless it has had a really gently life. A little oil consumption wouldn't stop me from buying as long as the undercarriage, clutches and brakes were good.

As far as which will be best, a dozer with 6 way blade is about as good as it gets and D3 is about the smallest dozer made for commercial use I think, but still a very capable machine. I used a D6 to level some spoil banks from a drainage ditch that was dug with a drag line back when I was about 18 and I still remember the thrill of operating that machine and the dirt that it would move.

 

[Oldoak]

Dozer, hands down!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Day and night comparison. If the D3 is sound with good undercarriage, reasonable price "to you" which is all that matters, go for it. Won't take you an hour to learn the controls, longer to learn all that you can do with it.

I agree.

Although replacement parts and rebuilding of final drives and clutches, etc. can be can be very expensive. Often times you can save money by purchasing used parts, however the labor involved is still costly for most of us who don't have the heavy equipment and tools necessary to do the job. Then again, you can be lucky and the machine you are considering could be a gem for the projects you are anticipating.

 

[PILOON]

From the pics, the undercarriage looks to have lots of life remaining.
Sprockets and tracks good.
Generally hydraulics are maintainable at modest costs in that seals hose consist of mostly your expense., that is if the pump is in decent shape but that is relatively easy to verify.
One very costly area to venture in is transmission and final drives so you want to verify that closely.
I always suggest having a qualified heavy equipment mechanic with you for a more qualified opinion.
His 1-2 hr fee will be your best investment.

 

[topbuilder]

Rent. Use your box blade to clean up the mess the Dozer makes. You will insulate yourself from risk.

 

[Gordon Gould]

Like the others said, The dozer is far better. Especially if you are cutting a side hill that is a discomfort or scary when operating a tractor.

The only thing I saw from the pictures. and it is very hard to tell because of the angle, is the wear on the bottom rollers. As the rollers wear (get smaller in Diameter where the track chain runs) and the track chain flanges wear, The chain bushing ends can encroach and eventually hit the outside roller flanges. It may be close. Also I think (not at all sure) the D3B has dry steering clutches so if it has set a long time don't be surprised if they are rusted and frozen. You will want to pick the front off the ground with the blade if you can and make sure the rollers turn (they turn hard by hand but they should turn) and pry them with a bar to make sure the bearings aren't whobbley.

As far as operating - no problem. You won't be efficient and you will be clumsy at first but so what.

Here is a test to do an old timer sent me when I was going to look at a JD450

What to look for -
Undercarriage wear (all the parts that make it move or come in contact with moving parts).
Rear Sprockets - pointy(bad) broad & flat (good)
Front tensioner, idler roller, and track rollers - are they nice & round or, cupped / U shaped, or out of round.
Track Link Bushings (the round part of the track chain that is driven by the sprockets) Are they symmetrical round? or do they have flat spots?
Track link wear (slop in the bushings) - are the tracks properly tensioned - is there a little sag in them or a huge amount of sag? Take a look at the track tensioner mechanism, it is usually a cylinder rod that pushes up against the front roller to take up track slack, how much travel is left to keep the tracks from excessive sag. You can tell by looking how many inches of travel are left at the front of the track rails.

Long track has 6 rollers.

Leaks - any leak anywhere is not good.
Hydraulic cylinders and rods, are they leaking? Rods pitted / gouged? Rod seals leaking ?

Steering breaks & steering clutches -
Drive it around turning left & right, get a feel for how far each lever has to be pulled back to steer it.
Find a place to lower & bury the blade, BOTH tracks should continue to spin at the same rate, this will tell you the steering clutches are still good, or at least have some life left in them.

Pull both steering levers back about half way at the same time so as to dis-engage the steering clutch but not so far that it activates the steering breaks, both tracks should roll to a stop, and the engine should not bog down, then slowly release one lever, the dozer will be powered by one track but should still go in a straight line. Repeat with the other lever to make sure the dozer will go in a straight line by being driven on only one track.

gg

 

[Gordon Gould]

I edited the above because I totally messed up the bit about the chain bushing hitting the rollers.
Put it here incase you already read it and you are confused buy what I said.

gg

 

[jimmysisson]

The dozer is best for those tasks since it's heavy and stable. If you are thinking you'll save some dough by doing you projects yourself, I'm skeptical. If it's for fun and edumication, go for it.

Jim

 

[Sawyer Rob]

The dozer is best for those tasks since it's heavy and stable. If you are thinking you'll save some dough by doing you projects yourself, I'm skeptical. If it's for fun and edumication, go for it.

Jim

There's the right answer, right there!

SR

 

[fried1765]

Rent. Use your box blade to clean up the mess the Dozer makes. You will insulate yourself from risk.

YUP!
RENT !!!
Unless you have barrels of money, and weeks of spare time, forget ... THAT particular D3.
If you really want a dozer, go buy a GOOD dozer, use it for your project, and then sell it!
Renting is the BEST idea!
I once owned an old crawler loader.
I am speaking from experience!

 

[DieselBound]

I agree with fried1765. If you own the equipment and it breaks down on you you will then be faced with repair costs that you might not be ready for. And there's the need for BIG tools. AND, where it breaks down could be highly problematic. (I got a 9k lb excavator stuck and it was no fun; fortunately it wasn't the big excavator that I rent that I got stuck!)

I would like to have one but I don't feel that I can't justify the costs. Tracked vehicles are just a lot more expensive to operate and maintain. Yes, they can get a ton of work done; but, unless you have your projects all lined up and you're really applying that machine you're going to be under-utilizing it all the while risking a costly event occurring. My equipment rental guy (I rent excavators from) doesn't have a dozer; I suspect that if he did I'd be renting one from him.

 

[redman135]

Piloon's statement about getting a qualified heavy equipment mechanic nailed it.
If the dozer is a dud then it is a cheap learning experience, and if it is good then you have peace of mind from the outset.
good luck.

 

[fried1765]

Piloon's statement about getting a qualified heavy equipment mechanic nailed it.
If the dozer is a dud then it is a cheap learning experience, and if it is good then you have peace of mind from the outset.
good luck.

I doubt that any mechanic will have x-ray vision.
There is no such thing as "piece of mind" if you own an old tracked earth mover.
Something is about to break .....all the time!
When that something breaks,..... your wallet will get a thorough flushing!

 

[Billrog]

Sounds like the price must be right . If it runs good goes forward and back turns both ways along with some of GGs advice buy it and play all summer. I bought an old cat with more hrs. than that used it for a couple years and was able to sell it for more than I paid without even painting it.

 

[atsah]

Another vote for renting if you can, I have done many projects around my property and have rented dozer, excavators etc to accomplish them and use my light weight equipment to clean up after them.

 

[Rustyiron]

Hey Piston, what's up with the excavator you were looking at?

You're as bad as I am:laughing: Iron junkie!

 

[kevin37b]

If it will start and move as cold as it looks , good thing . Get it backed out and run it an hour . You will know what kind of shape the tracks are in pretty quick . Get off and do a walkaround on leaks , in the snow . Surely he has a place you can do a little pushing . The trans is something to consider with that many HRS . As far as work done it will bury your tractor and no flat tires guaranteed . Good luck , I enjoy your posts .

 

[EddieWalker]

I started out renting a John Deere 450G dozer on my land and quickly realized it was too small for what I wanted to do. It couldn't break through the hard packed, dry red clay, and when pushing a full blade of dirt, it would quickly become too much and spin its tracks or kill the engine. It was great at shaping and spreading loose dirt. I bought a bigger Case dozer similar in size to a D6 at 170 hp. It does everything I want a dozer to do. It's also a never ending project of fixing things. I could never afford to rent one to do everything I want to do, or hire it out, so wrenching on it is how I save money. Hoses go all the time, cylinders fail one at a time until you've rebuilt every one of them. Then I think they start the process all over again. Branches are your worse enemy. Never run over them, they will catch on the tracks and then get through your belly pans and break something. I had a small, green pine branch bust off the oil sensor on the side of my engine block that created quite the mess of oil spraying through the engine covers!!!

Buying means that you have it there 24/7 and you can use it for as long as you want, or just let it sit until it's needed. Never expect it to work right away, there will always be something to fix on it. Renting means killing yourself to get the most out of it while you have it. Usually it will run perfectly while you have it, but hoses break, things happen, so even renting brand new, don't be surprised if you break down.

As to your original question, I personally hated my box blade. I never became proficient at it and found it to be extremely frustrating to smooth anything out with it. I tried digging ditches along my trails with it, but I just created a mess. I tried using the back blade for filling trenches when running water lines, but found it painful twisting in my seat going backwards all the time. After sitting around in my yard for ten years, I gave it to a friend who is now experiencing the same issues I had with it.

My personal favorite way to smooth out a road or a pad is to back drag with the front bucket on my loader. I have the best control that way, and my results are always good. The dozer is great for filling trenches, or spreading dirt, or digging the pond. It doesn't move dirt very far, but for short distances, it's good. Hopefully this year I will level off about an acre to create a parking area close to my pond, build up a pad for an event center and shape a two lane road to get there. I'm also clearing trees for my fence line and it looks like a war zone with all the craters left from digging them out. I'll reshape the side of the hill with the dozer and use that dirt to fill in where the holes from the stumps.

The one thing that I find that most people don't understand is how much running a dozer beats you up. The first hour is fun, but then it turns into work, and after you've been on it all day, your beat up. Both mentally and physically. My brain feels numb, and my body is exhausted. If you break down, you are doing the repairs right where you stopped. Most of the time it's on uneven ground, or in a location that's not ideal. I've had to cut down trees and haul off debris to get to where the problem was. I've had to use my backhoe to dig a pit so I could get under the dozer, and I've resorted to digging with a small, garden hand shovel to get to where I needed to be.

Whatever you do, NEVER GET STUCK in the mud with a dozer!!!!!

Hope this helps,
Eddie