Dirt Moving Cub Cadet 8454 Buy It?

[CANMAR]

It has a new Cub Cadet 640 loader I have to install,from when the dealership's were Cub Cadet.The loader is for a Cub Cadet 8354 (Kioti DK35).The loader mount should be almost the same,I hope.I am thinking I should have it on the tractor before it gets nice outside here this year.
At one point of the install I will have to strap the loader to a beam I have in the cinder block garage I have now,it has a flat roof.Nice to have the beam there now before I demo the garage with the tractor,and to help build the new garage.
If anyone is interested I can post how the loader install goes.

 

[teg]

Wicked COOL... brand new, WOW... and HECK Ya, we would like to see the mounting (and really like to see the DEMO of the old garage!!!!).

Watch out for 2x4's with nails when you demo.... don't ask me why.

Do you have the hydraulic controls for the loader (already on the tractor?).

 

[CANMAR]

Thanks for you interest teg,I will post the loader install.It could involve changing part of the mount for the loader where it bolts to the frame of the tractor.I talked to the actual manufacture of the Cub Cadet 640 loader,KMW loaders.They said the 640 loader was made only for the Cub Cadet 8354.The side loader mounts are massive,I have a small welding set up in the garage now,so I should be able to do a good job.
The Cub Cadet (Kioti DK45) tractor has what they call a hydraulic power beyond block,that the loader control will hook up to,on the right side frame,under the brake pedals.It looks like I have all the plumbing and the joystick control valve in the crate that came with the loader.It looks like it will be great loader if I get it mounted,it even has quick attach for the 60" bucket.

 

[airbiscuit]

Your tractor has a 6" longer wheel base. Many of the part numbers are different for the 642 loader on the partspring loader mount diagram. I'd assemble it on the ground and see how the dimensions come out. If the frame width of the 8354 is the same as your tractor, things should go well. If not, you will have some fitting and fabbing to do.

 

[DK35vince]

Thanks for you interest teg,I will post the loader install.It could involve changing part of the mount for the loader where it bolts to the frame of the tractor.I talked to the actual manufacture of the Cub Cadet 640 loader,KMW loaders.They said the 640 loader was made only for the Cub Cadet 8354.The side loader mounts are massive,I have a small welding set up in the garage now,so I should be able to do a good job.
The Cub Cadet (Kioti DK45) tractor has what they call a hydraulic power beyond block,that the loader control will hook up to,on the right side frame,under the brake pedals.It looks like I have all the plumbing and the joystick control valve in the crate that came with the loader.It looks like it will be great loader if I get it mounted,it even has quick attach for the 60" bucket.

Appears to be the same loader as on my DK 35. Kioti KL 1450 (made by KMW)

 

[airbiscuit]

Appears to be the same loader as on my DK 35. Kioti KL 1450 (made by KMW)

You could help him a ton by giving the width of your tractor frame, some front to back measurements, and pics of the mount.

 

[DK35vince]

You could help him a ton by giving the width of your tractor frame, some front to back measurements, and pics of the mount.

If he needs something there he can let me know, but it will be a few days to I can get to it.

 

[airbiscuit]

Nice looking tractor by the way.

 

[CANMAR]

Thanks for your help airbiscuit,that is a nice looking Kioti DK35 tractor.Assembling it before would be a good idea,Thanks.I am sure hoping the width of the frame is the same on my CC 8454 (Kioti DK45) as the Kioti DK35 that my loader would bolt on.The Kioti KL1450 is the same as my Cub Cadet 640,both made by KMW Loaders in Kansas.The instructions for my loader are for both models.The pictures in my Cub Cadet 640 loader manual are of a Kioti tractor,(some area's on my tractor where the paint has worn is showing bright orange paint underneath).If I could get a measurement of the width of the Kioti DK35 frame,it would take allot of the guesswork out of the loader install.
It looks like the side loader mounts have two sets of bolts,toward front and middle of tractor.I hope the four bolts in the mid frame of the CC 8454 are the same as the CC 8354 (Kioti DK35),and line up the my CC 640 loader.The set of bolts toward the front look like they do not line up,you can see them in the picture of the DK35 from DK35vince.BTW I would be afraid to even put a scratch in the paint of his tractor,it is like new.

 

[CANMAR]

Thanks for your reply airbiscuit,I checked the part numbers for the Cub Cadet 640 and 642,and Kioti KL1450 and KL1470 loaders,all made by KMW Loaders.
The part of the loader frame that fits into the side mounts that stay on the tractor (Bearing Boxes),are the same for all.The actual loader frames are the same for the Kioti models,but are not the same for the Cub Cadet 640 and 642.The CC 642 loader, that is supposed to bolt on my CC8454,frame's overall length I think is longer.I am hoping both the CC 640 and CC 642's width are the same.
The part numbers for the side mounts that bolt to the tractor frame,are not the same for the Cub Cadet 640 and 642 loader.The bolt locations must not be the same for the Cub Cadet 8354 and 8454,(Kioti DK35 and DK45) tractors.

 

[airbiscuit]

I am hoping that the tractor frame widths are the same. That means your main mounts will bolt up (you may have to drill a few new holes) You may have to do some modifications to the sub frame as the wheelbase is longer. Perhaps you could call KMV and ask them what's different?

 

[CANMAR]

Thanks for your suggestions airbiscuit,I hope all the details about the loader mount have not lost all interest in this post.I hope the width will be correct after mounting the side mounts to the frame.And I just have to drill new hole locations on the front part of the side mounts.
I measured the width of the frame toward the front,just behind the front axle,where it is easy to measure.It is 12" for the frame but 13-3/4" including the 7/8" thick mounting plates with holes for the loader,welded to each side of the frame.
As for the longer wheel base of my CC 8454,there are no support arms going to the front of the frame from the mid mounts,just rear rails that bolt to the rear axle and also the mid mounts.I will have to modify the rear rails I have,that fit the CC 8354,to fit my CC 8454.
Or buy the correct ones from Cub Cadet.I called them and they are very helpful,more than willing to sell parts and will even make shipping reasonable.
When I called KMW Loaders,they were helpful but not willing to get too detailed about the loaders they made for Cub Cadet/Kioti.I found out they made loaders for allot of the big name tractor manufactures,most of there sales.They also make their own line of loaders to fit larger tractors.All very good quality as far as I can tell.

 

[CANMAR]

Hopefully this diagram of the Cub Cadet 640 loader I have,will make this post less confusing and more interesting.I can post pictures of the frame of the tractor and of the loader this weekend.

 

[CANMAR]

I have been distracted for a while,not getting far with the loader install.Last week I drove to Springfield IL. to buy a tractor that I could not pass up,a '98 Cub Cadet 7305 with 417 loader.My sister bought one of these new in '99 without loader for mowing.It was close to $20k!I seen it when she got it and really liked it,even more when after looking at it I could tell it was a Mitsubishi.
So I just got really busy with Cub Cadets.I was able to get something done,hooking up the glow plug circuit correctly on the CC8454,and taking apart the tach on the CC7305 to get the hour meter to work.
I am thinking this way I can try both tractors to see what one will work better for me over time.

 

[airbiscuit]

Welcome to the more is better club. Congratulations, that is a good looking tractor.

Here are Partstree side by side parts drawings 640/642 loader mounts

 

[DK35vince]

Thanks for your suggestions airbiscuit,I hope all the details about the loader mount have not lost all interest in this post.I hope the width will be correct after mounting the side mounts to the frame.And I just have to drill new hole locations on the front part of the side mounts.
I measured the width of the frame toward the front,just behind the front axle,where it is easy to measure.It is 12" for the frame but 13-3/4" including the 7/8" thick mounting plates with holes for the loader,welded to each side of the frame.
As for the longer wheel base of my CC 8454,there are no support arms going to the front of the frame from the mid mounts,just rear rails that bolt to the rear axle and also the mid mounts.I will have to modify the rear rails I have,that fit the CC 8354,to fit my CC 8454.
Or buy the correct ones from Cub Cadet.I called them and they are very helpful,more than willing to sell parts and will even make shipping reasonable.
When I called KMW Loaders,they were helpful but not willing to get too detailed about the loaders they made for Cub Cadet/Kioti.I found out they made loaders for allot of the big name tractor manufactures,most of there sales.They also make their own line of loaders to fit larger tractors.All very good quality as far as I can tell.

I just measured my DK 35 and the frame width is 11 5/8" wide including the weld on mount plates (didn't measure those, mine are probably 1/2" or so vs 7/8")

 

[CANMAR]

Thanks for more info airbiscuit and to DK35vince for measuring the Kioti DK35 frame.It sounds like you measured the same place I did,just behind the front axle on the frame.So the CC8454 (DK45) frame is 13-3/4" including the weld on plates for the loader,and the DK35's frame is 11-5/8" including the weld on plates for the loader?It is looking like at least the front part of the mounts for the loader are not the same for CC8354 (Kioti DK35) and CC8454 (Kioti DK45).Looking at the diagram that airbiscuit posted seems to show this.
The rear part of the mounts that bolt to the frame look like they could be the same for both tractors,I hope.That would give me a place to start to mount them before I would have to modify.
It is looking like it will be worth it,though.After working on both the Mitsubishi Cub Cadet,that I knew I would like and the Kioti Cub Cadet that I was not sure of.I am finding that the Kioti is very well made,not allot of accessory's,but has what needs to be there to get the job done and heavy duty.

 

[CANMAR]

I started in on the loader install,weather here has been lousy this spring.I had time for more research between the CC8354 and CC8454 and have been lucky so far.The loader side mount's rear holes do line up with CC8454 even though mount is made for the CC8354.I am thinking both the CC8354 and CC8454 use the same rear plate that is attached to the engine where these holes are,and because the loader mount cross member I have,for the CC8354,would fit between the two side mounts on my CC8454.So the width of this rear plate of the engine also is the same for the CC8354 and CC8454.Here is a diagram of the CC8354 showing the rear plate attached to the engine,with the holes for loader mount.
Here is a pic of how the rear holes of the side mounts do line up on my CC8454,but the front part of my side loader mount for the CC8354,is not long enough to reach the front holes on the frame.

 

[airbiscuit]

So what are your plans to make things fit up?

 

[CANMAR]

Thanks for your reply airbuscuit.so far it looks like I just have to refab the front part of the mid loader mount in the picture.There is an offset on the mount between the rear and the front part of the mount that bolts to the frame.I will have to measure the offset between the rear and front part of the frame.That will help to figure what thickness of steel and where to add on the front part of mount.(It does not mount like some tractors that have a frame that you can just bolt a long plate of steel because the frame is flat on the sides).It looks like I will be using 3/8" steel thickness.The side mounts weigh allot on this loader,probably 100 pounds.Not easy to try and get them into position,would be easy for the Hulk or Big John.
Other than that I will find out if my CC640 loader is long enough in the front not to hit the front of the CC8454 tractor when raising or lowering.So far it is too close for me to tell,I will have to keep my fingers crossed when I first use it.