My new 4300 project

[pmsmechanic]

I have a brand new BM19575 front mounting kit for a 4100, 4300, 4400. You can use it for a snowblower or a broom.

 

[TractorGuy]

Well crap, looks like I need to rebuild the engine. Started noticing a whole lot of crankcase blowby and a miss. Tore the engine down (hardest part was pulling the tank, they really don't make that easy) and took some measurements. The cross hatching in all 3 cylinders looked suspiciously good. I couldn't tell if the head had been off before or not.
I'm thinking someone might have honed it in the past with stock bore when it should have been pulled and bored oversized.




I took some measurements and she needs rebuilt

Cyl. aA___aB_____bA_____bB_____cA_____cB
1 84.02066 84.02574 84.02066 84.04098 84.0232 84.0232
2 84.02574 84.01812 84.02828 84.03844 84.03336 84.01558
3 84.01304 84.03844 84.0105 84.05622 84.01304 84.03844

Hope you didn't dive into that without checking the crankcase vent. Unless it has a lot more hours than you posted when you got it, it should not need a rebuild.

 

[larboc]

Hope you didn't dive into that without checking the crankcase vent. Unless it has a lot more hours than you posted when you got it, it should not need a rebuild.

Yea, crankcase vent was blowing a LOT of pulsing vapor out of it.
Got the tractor split and the engine torn down yesterday. Piston #1 is cracked. I was trying to get it started this winter with too much ether with a failed thermister/no fuel. My own fault, kicking myself very hard thank you very much. The bore is out of spec for out of round and concentricity and I'm already in this far so I have a .25mm overbore kit on order. I theoretically could just replace the piston that cracked and live with the out of spec walls, but a new piston from deere is $220 plus all the gaskets and $75 per cylinder for a ring back.
I bought an entire Maxiforce rebuild kit for less than $400 on ebay, should be here thursday and I can take the block to the machinist.

I'm also in contact with a Yanmar dealer to order 3 sets of piston squirters. This block has bosses in the casting for the oil squirters on the turbo versions so I think as long as I'm in here I might as well machine and install squirters. I'll add the "T" later on in place of the stock muffler. Everything I read says that the piston part numbers are different between this engine and the 4020tf but the pistons I took out had reliefs in the skirt for oil squirters.

 

[texasranger556]

Oh wow, what did the compression look like with the cracked piston? Ether is great stuff, sometimes too great!

It looks like you lucked out that there is aftermarket support for your 3TNE84 engine, $400 is a steal. What all does that include? Anything on the bottom end? Maxiforce doesn't list anything for my 4400, so I'll be at the dealer's mercy if anything happens to my engine. Fingers crossed that doesn't happen.

I'll be interested to see how you go with the squirters. Does the turbo version run a bigger oil pump? A turbo 4300 would be an awesome package, if not abused.

 

[TractorGuy]

Yea, crankcase vent was blowing a LOT of pulsing vapor out of it.
Got the tractor split and the engine torn down yesterday. Piston #1 is cracked. I was trying to get it started this winter with too much ether with a failed thermister/no fuel. My own fault, kicking myself very hard thank you very much. The bore is out of spec for out of round and concentricity and I'm already in this far so I have a .25mm overbore kit on order. I theoretically could just replace the piston that cracked and live with the out of spec walls, but a new piston from deere is $220 plus all the gaskets and $75 per cylinder for a ring back.
I bought an entire Maxiforce rebuild kit for less than $400 on ebay, should be here thursday and I can take the block to the machinist.

I'm also in contact with a Yanmar dealer to order 3 sets of piston squirters. This block has bosses in the casting for the oil squirters on the turbo versions so I think as long as I'm in here I might as well machine and install squirters. I'll add the "T" later on in place of the stock muffler. Everything I read says that the piston part numbers are different between this engine and the 4020tf but the pistons I took out had reliefs in the skirt for oil squirters.

Wouldn't the turbo pistons be lower compression?

I read where Ford put squirters on the 2011 5.0 V8s and had to remove them later due to increased oil consumption. Not sure what they did wrong on that or that it would be relevant to a diesel.

 

[RoyJackson]

Got the tractor split and the engine torn down yesterday. Piston #1 is cracked. I was trying to get it started this winter with too much ether with a failed thermister/no fuel. My own fault, kicking myself very hard thank you very much. The bore is out of spec for out of round and concentricity and I'm already in this far so I have a .25mm overbore kit on order. I theoretically could just replace the piston that cracked and live with the out of spec walls, but a new piston from deere is $220 plus all the gaskets and $75 per cylinder for a ring back.
I bought an entire Maxiforce rebuild kit for less than $400 on ebay, should be here thursday and I can take the block to the machinist.

I'm also in contact with a Yanmar dealer to order 3 sets of piston squirters. This block has bosses in the casting for the oil squirters on the turbo versions so I think as long as I'm in here I might as well machine and install squirters. I'll add the "T" later on in place of the stock muffler. Everything I read says that the piston part numbers are different between this engine and the 4020tf but the pistons I took out had reliefs in the skirt for oil squirters.

If there's one thing Yanmar engines do well...it's start in cold weather. I used a block heater on all three Deere tractors I had with Yanmar engines...cold weather starting is easy...block heaters just make it easier. My current machine, a 2005 4520, has a Deere Powertech engine...unlike the Yanmar engines, these are cold natured (but very strong engines!)
Since the 4300 has an air intake heater (rather then glow plugs), I wouldn't use ether at all. You might be fortunate the heater didn't light off the ether
I don't know how many hours are on your 4300, but with the wear you describe, sure sounds like the tractor wasn't maintained very well.

 

[larboc]

Oh wow, what did the compression look like with the cracked piston? Ether is great stuff, sometimes too great!

It looks like you lucked out that there is aftermarket support for your 3TNE84 engine, $400 is a steal. What all does that include? Anything on the bottom end? Maxiforce doesn't list anything for my 4400, so I'll be at the dealer's mercy if anything happens to my engine. Fingers crossed that doesn't happen.

I'll be interested to see how you go with the squirters. Does the turbo version run a bigger oil pump? A turbo 4300 would be an awesome package, if not abused.

Looks like your kit is right here?
$422 Yanmar 3TNE88 Engine O/H Kit .25 Oversized 3TNE88-ACG 3TNE88-ACGD 3TNE88-AGD | eBay

Comes with piston kits, rod bolts, rod bearings, crank bearings, cam bearing, all gaskets, valve seals, o-rings, copper washers, main seals, etc. The same package of stuff through JD would have been well over $1000. I never added it all up.

Jdparts shows the same oil pump for the 3 cyl NA all the way up to the 4 cylinder turbo tne84 so shouldn't be an issue.

I never checked compression but based on how it ran I'm sure it was low.

 

[larboc]

If there's one thing Yanmar engines do well...it's start in cold weather. I used a block heater on all three Deere tractors I had with Yanmar engines...cold weather starting is easy...block heaters just make it easier. My current machine, a 2005 4520, has a Deere Powertech engine...unlike the Yanmar engines, these are cold natured (but very strong engines!)
Since the 4300 has an air intake heater (rather then glow plugs), I wouldn't use ether at all. You might be fortunate the heater didn't light off the ether
I don't know how many hours are on your 4300, but with the wear you describe, sure sounds like the tractor wasn't maintained very well.

Yea it either started amazingly great in the cold or wouldn't start at all (thermistor).
The grid heater only turns on when pushing the key and I didn't do that while ethering.

One other tidbit I found is that if you look up other versions of the xTNE84 on jdparts like the 3015 it looks like a 0.5mm overbore piston might be available. Everywhere else only shows a 0.25mm oversize.

 

[larboc]

Wouldn't the turbo pistons be lower compression?

I read where Ford put squirters on the 2011 5.0 V8s and had to remove them later due to increased oil consumption. Not sure what they did wrong on that or that it would be relevant to a diesel.

18:1 regardless of turbo or non-turbo.

Lots of inline engines have squirters on them, I'd guess a V engine would be a challenge to keep oil off the walls. Since it was a factory option I'm sure it will be fine as long as I install them in stock locations.

 

[larboc]

So it took some digging but I think I've found the correct yanmar part numbers to install the piston cooling jets. Seems like it's pretty common across various yanmar engines.

Nozzles 129553-39650 are $27.20 each.
Check valve 129792-39410 are $25.27 each.
Spring pin 22351-030010 are $$.77 each.

I'm going to order today. It's going to take a pretty long end mill to get down there to spot face it (5") before drilling and tapping but it looks to be parallel to the deck so it will be easy enough to fixture. The hard part will be getting a drill bit that long to not walk and get a tap to go in straight.

I'm potentially making this rebuild more complicated that it needs to be but I hate the idea of putting an engine back together 'stock'. I know I want to do a stock sized intercooled turbo setup in the near future and I feel like adding the cooling jets is the right thing to do since I'm in it this far. Am I crazy?

 

[rekees4300]

Am I crazy?

:confused3: I would just buy a new tractor but different strokes for different folks.

 

[larboc]

:confused3: I would just buy a new tractor but different strokes for different folks.

Ehh, I decided to take the boring way out and just keep it at a stock rebuild. The thing had plenty of power and realistically I don't think I'll ever want to spend the time to do a nice turbo setup without it coming out hack.
Dropped the block, head, and crank off at the machinist yesterday, should have it back middle of next week. The maxiforce kit arrived wednesday and everything looks pretty nice. Gaskets are all made in U.S., no idea on the pistons. The kit did not come with conrod bolts and maxiforce does not yet make them so I had to order them from JD along with crank bolts. Probably could have reused them but the manual repeatedly says not to and as much fun as it would be to have one fail after I just rebuilt the engine I figured it was $60 well spent. After all, not heading the "do not use starting fluid, immediate engine damage will result" warning on the air cleaner is what cracked the piston and got me into this mess in the first place.

 

[texasranger556]

I would have liked to have seen the turbo project, but unfortunately I agree it doesn't make a lot of sense. Not that it would prevent me from doing it if I'd already decided on it.

I was going by tractordata.com which listed a 99 engine for a 4400. Maybe it's wrong, I'll have to find the tag on mine.

 

[steviep]

Larboc , could you post a link to where you got your parts from. Mine had the same symptoms so I had the head rebuilt. Against my gut feeling I did just the head ,the cylinder walls looked great. Finished assembly yesterday and still have a lot of blow by so now I start all over. How hard was the tractor split.

 

[larboc]

Larboc , could you post a link to where you got your parts from. Mine had the same symptoms so I had the head rebuilt. Against my gut feeling I did just the head ,the cylinder walls looked great. Finished assembly yesterday and still have a lot of blow by so now I start all over. How hard was the tractor split.

I just searched "3tne84 kit) on ebay and found the lowest price kit was from "mytractor". I ended up calling them up at 1-877-298-3210 and told them what I was looking for to make sure the kit I was buying was the right one and ended up just ordering over the phone (saved a couple bucks). They are a maxiforce dealer out of canada. They took my order and then had maxiforce send me the kit directly from an illinois warehouse. I ordered on a monday morning and had the kit wednesday afternoon. I found that prices varied WIDELY for the same kit depending on where you looked. This is the kit on ebay, the application guide says komatsu but they verified from maxiforce that it's interchangeable with the JD application part number. Yanmar 3TNE84 3TNE84T Engine O/H Kit .25 Oversized G1 GH G1A | eBay
Keep in mind you'll need to order rod bolts and flywheel bolts as they don't come in the kit and maxiforce doesn't make them. I got them from an online deere dealer, I priced them out through a yanmar dealer and it really wasn't much cheaper.

O, and splitting the tractor wasn't really all that bad. Honestly getting to the head is harder than splitting the whole tractor since it requires pulling the fuel tank and all that entails. (WTF john deere?). I was wondering if I could split the tractor without pulling the tank (especially since I have a cab) but decided not to try it and glad I didn't. There are two bellhousing bolts that you can't get to without pulling the tank.

General procedure:
1) Pull all the cab components that go over the dash, take the dash off and all the hydraulic lines and cover them with rubber glove fingers for the steering valve. Pull the fuse block off to the side
2) Take all the brake pedals and shafts out
3) Disconnect the hydraulic hard lines and cover. You don't need to drain the hydro oil. Carefully take the feed line coming from the tranny and cap it and wire it high so it can't fall down and dump fluid out.
4) Take out the radiator/oil cooler
5) Disconnect the engine harness, fuel lines, pull the tank
6) Chock the rear wheels, lift the front of the tractor slightly off the ground.
7) Support the tranny with a single, big, jack stand.
8) Support the engine with an engine hoist, and start pulling engine plate to bellhousing bolts.
9) Roll the engine/front frame forward and support the frame rails on both sides with jackstands. Pull the frame to oil pan bolts. Remove engine. Be careful as the frame can tilt side to side a lot since the front axle pivots. It's pretty well balanced so you can flop it around by hand and set it down on the floor in a safe spot.


Fairly straightforward, I did it in a sunday afternoon.

 

[steviep]

Did you do a compression check of the engine. Do you have picture of your cracked piston. I am thinking you couldn't see the crack from the top.

 

[larboc]

Did you do a compression check of the engine. Do you have picture of your cracked piston. I am thinking you couldn't see the crack from the top.

I didn't take the time to do a compression check. With the amount of blowby I had and the missing it would have been a waste of time, especially considering how stuck the injectors were. It was all I could do to get them out with the slide hammer I use for pulling wheel bearings. IIRC I would have only been able to get to cyl. 1 anyway since the tank is in the way of the other two.
I left the pistons on the rods when I dropped them off at the machine shop. When I get them back I'll take a picture of it. Could not see it from the top at all. Somewhat vertical cracks running through the ringland. I probably could have gotten by with just replacing the piston but like I said, given the economics it made more sense to overhaul. I think you can buy a single piston from maxiforce. My time is worth more to me that the additional cost of parts and machining so I did the whole thing while the engine was out.

FYI if you're thinking about just doing one piston:
I could be wrong, but I don't think it would be possible to pull the pan without pulling the engine from the tractor. It sure wouldn't be any easier. The pan bolts to the frame rails and also to the engine so you'd have to support the front half of the frame and the back of the tractor to do it. Kind of a split without splitting. The tank would still have to come out which is the bulk of the labor of pulling the engine anyway. Getting the pan back on without messing up the gasket or getting crud in there would further complicate it.

 

[larboc]

Block is done, head should be done by wednesday hopefully. Talked to the machinist and he said that one of the pistons was about .0025" larger than the other two. He just bored one cylinder a little bigger so there is good clearance across the engine. I'm glad I took him the pistons. He refused to bore the block until he had pistons in hand, and this is why.

He said it's fairly typical of service parts these days and he wouldn't have expected yanmar parts to have had a chance of being much better.

 

[texasranger556]

Block is done, head should be done by wednesday hopefully. Talked to the machinist and he said that one of the pistons was about .0025" larger than the other two. He just bored one cylinder a little bigger so there is good clearance across the engine. I'm glad I took him the pistons. He refused to bore the block until he had pistons in hand, and this is why.

He said it's fairly typical of service parts these days and he wouldn't have expected yanmar parts to have had a chance of being much better.

Wow that seems like a fairly big difference. I just put a new top end in my RZR and the new pistons were down in the tenths, but perhaps they match them at the factory before sending them out. How are the ring gaps?

 

[steviep]

My deere dealer took mine apart the first time but I put it back together after having the head redone so I know the pain the fuel tank is. Thank you for all your information. Was your blow by grey and smell like exhaust.