1705 vs 1715

[dnmccoy]

I read the 1705/10 has 6.3 and the 1715/20 has the 6.8 per the link.

However it doesn't matter, it's and RPM/fuel issues that equalizes the numbers.

This is what Im talking about, either its a misprint, or the 1710 is also 6.8

 

[Fiziksgeek]

That's a mis print, look on page 6.

 

[07keo02]

One of the things you'll likely find is if someone bought a 1705 they'll say it isn't worth the difference lol. Well I bought a gc1715. I'm sure a gc1705 is a great machine. But here are things to consider:

1a. Most will highlight the seat. . But unless you have looked close you'll miss 3 big things about the seat. The gray seat on the gc1715 is "material formed" which means it will keep it's shape locked in place for years. The gc1705 gray seat is "material loose" so it flattens as it is used. Better back support and better side support come with the formed unit (comfortable but supportive).

1b. Under neath the gray seat on the gc1715 it has an entirely different metal bracketing structure which allows you to reverse the seat adjuster stop and gain about 3 more inches of leg room with no cutting or drilling or misalignment with sensors. the only thing it does is give you more room with no negatives. unscrew 2 bolts - spin the stop bracket 180 degrees and refasten the 2 bolts and you're done.

1c. The gc1705 is a coil suspension seat. The gc1715 is both coil and spring suspension. Soooooo . . . If you are on a washboard lawn or rough surface driveway or road etc., the gc1715 seat absorbs frequent small bumps better. In other words. . You don't get jostled about, because the spring suspension portion absorbs the smaller or more frequent bumps. Think of it like a car - you have springs and you have shocks both working together.

2. Now about the power differences. Not only do you add a few more HP but you also get an increased hydraulic pumps output.

Many ground engaging implements have suggested PTO hp needs. So how does added hydraulic pumps output and additional hp help other than for 3pt ground engaging? It means that you also get greater lift for a bucket or forks or grapple. As an example, at 2500 rpm I lift a pallet of landscape blocks xxx in quantity and lift it 42 inches. But becuase of the GC1715 design differences I can be at 3000 rpm and can add additional blocks onto that exact same existing pallet load and lift them to the same 42 inch height. Same with logs in a grapple or ????

And what about for mmm use. I have the dedicated MF mulching deck. With it I can cut up to 7 inch grasses without any problems even damp. And if it gets really healthy and thick grasses - I can further increase the hp available to keep a clean cut.


3. Then as mentioned there are the steel guards on the directionals is a plus and also there is an additional worklight wired and working on the ROPS. And if you want to make it led. . Then the wiring and mounting are already in place and you simply take off the existing light and put on an led. . Quick and fast. No wiring or rewiring to do.

Now seats on the gc1710 and gc1720 is another whole story because of the swivel situation once again bracketing is different.


Summary: Am I glad I spent $1100 for the gc1715 over the gc1705 ??? Though money is dear to me, I'd absolutely do it again. I notice big differences in combined comfort benefits and power differences in performance for my purposes. I'd say the same physical sizing benefits and convenience of a MF GC tractor and implement usage . . . . but with 10% more power and XX% more comfort I think it is worth the 8% change in price especially if you have a dl95 loader which offers higher weight limits compared to the dl100 loader. Or if you are using a mmm on a quality lawn that doesn't always have 4 inch grass and no dampness to it.


But both the GC 1705 and GC1715 are not only popular tractors - but also great performers. Its all based on buyers needs.

Why do you feel you can lift more, have you tried with both machines? The dl95 loader is the dl95 loader and the psi relief valve is set at 1920psi on either machine.

 

[AxleHub]

Why do you feel you can lift more, have you tried with both machines? The dl95 loader is the dl95 loader and the psi relief valve is set at 1920psi on either machine.

There is a very simple test. Load the gc1715 fel to a measurable weight and set throttle to 2600 rpm and lift to a measured height and add weight - each time taking it back to ground before adding added weight - till it won't move the weight off the ground. Then set the throttle to 3000 and add more weight and you will find it lifts it off the ground to the same measured height. Identical circumstances where tractor was never moved or relocated.

 

[07keo02]

Of course, you could do the same thing from idle all the way up to governed rpm. But, on each machine, it would probably be safe to assume that the 1920psi relief is set at rated rpm, 2600 vs 3000.

Are you saying that bringing it up to 3000 nets you more psi than 1920 (and that for some reason MF would set the relief at 2600rpm on a 3000rpm machine)?

I should add, I am not trying to sound argumentative. I legitimately wonder if PSI relief is the only factor or if it is a factor of psi relief and flow.

 

[AxleHub]

Of course, you could do the same thing from idle all the way up to governed rpm. But, on each machine, it would probably be safe to assume that the 1920psi relief is set at rated rpm, 2600 vs 3000.

Are you saying that bringing it up to 3000 nets you more psi than 1920 (and that for some reason MF would set the relief at 2600rpm on a 3000rpm machine)?

I should add, I am not trying to sound argumentative. I legitimately wonder if PSI relief is the only factor or if it is a factor of psi relief and flow.

I don't know how PSI is effected. But I know I can lift a substantial quantity of patio blocks on a pallet with my q.a. and forks on at 2600 rpm. But at a certain point if I rev it up to 3000 RPM I can lift even more patio blocks. I assume that is the difference in hp (2.5 hp) and hydraulic flow from the pumps (.5 gallon). But maybe I'm already lifting a bit more at 2600 than the GC1705.

But the real point is - whether its a gc1705 or gc1715 - they do a lot of work if you acquire implements that are focused on use for sub compact abilities. MyTractorTools.com products seem to weigh considerably less but not be limited in the work they can do - hence more payload per lift for the effort

 

[07keo02]

I don't know how PSI is effected. But I know I can lift a substantial quantity of patio blocks on a pallet with my q.a. and forks on at 2600 rpm. But at a certain point if I rev it up to 3000 RPM I can lift even more patio blocks. I assume that is the difference in hp (2.5 hp) and hydraulic flow from the pumps (.5 gallon). But maybe I'm already lifting a bit more at 2600 than the GC1705.

But the real point is - whether its a gc1705 or gc1715 - they do a lot of work if you acquire implements that are focused on use for sub compact abilities. MyTractorTools.com products seem to weigh considerably less but not be limited in the work they can do - hence more payload per lift for the effort

Im pretty sure, if anything, it would be the same or less lift ability at 2600rpm. The additional flow is based on an additional engine rpm change of the 1715. There is nothing, physically, that would allow it to lift more at 2600 rpm.

But, as you say, they are both great. Until I could see a side by side test of each model lifting various weight and testing the pressure relief valves at varying rpms, I stand by hydraulic strength being the same. The only exception would be rate of movement, as that's the only factor that I can see, flow would influence.

The higher hp models do have good benefits in the extra engine output, nicer seat, and guards around the signals.

 

[07keo02]

For the sake of getting to the bottom of it, I found the formula for hydraulic horsepower output. It is flow multiplied by psi, divided by 1714.

Calculations confirm there would be a slight lift advantage at 3000 rpm vs 2600 rpm, due to the additional flow. Somewhere around 50 pounds to max lift height, at the pivot pins.

 

[AxleHub]

For the sake of getting to the bottom of it, I found the formula for hydraulic horsepower output. It is flow multiplied by psi, divided by 1714.

Calculations confirm there would be a slight lift advantage at 3000 rpm vs 2600 rpm, due to the additional flow. Somewhere around 50 pounds to max lift height, at the pivot pins.

I'm confused. Isn't "flow" a function of both pumps capacity to produce and rpm's quantity of times to produce it? How could you calculate a 50 lb change when you don't know how many pounds stopped it at 2600 rpm ? After all we only know the dl95's number . . . we don't know the gc1705 maximum weight lifting ability vs. the GC1715 weight lifting ability ? ? ?

 

[07keo02]

I'm confused. Isn't "flow" a function of both pumps capacity to produce and rpm's quantity of times to produce it? How could you calculate a 50 lb change when you don't know how many pounds stopped it at 2600 rpm ? After all we only know the dl95's number . . . we don't know the gc1705 maximum weight lifting ability vs. the GC1715 weight lifting ability ? ? ?

I was just calculating the horsepower difference with the formula at 6.3 gpm and 6.9 gpm. Once I calculated the percentage difference, I multiplied that by the manufacters specs of lift ability. Of course, im assumimg the system can lift near the specs, but likely not exceed it. That's definitely rough numbers, but as close as I can come up with using the numbers I have available.

Reading more though, hp is really a consideration for hydraulic motors (flow and psi), when looking at a hydraulic cylinder, it only mentions surface area and psi. Considering they all have the same cylinders and pressure relief valve setting, they may output the same force afterall, albeit slightly higher rate of movement on the 3000rpm models.

A statement from insane hydraulic basics:


" 3. Pressure means force (torque), flow means speed.(rpm), NOT to be confused. Flow times pressure means power. So if you need more force, increase pressure, if you need more speed, increase flow, if you need both, install a bigger motor/pump unit.."