gunner76
Member
is it worth the extra $1k to go up to the 1715 since it only has an extra 3hp and everything else is pretty much the same spec wise.
1705 vs 1715
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plowhog
Elite Member
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2015
- Messages
- 4,054
- Location
- North. NV, North. CA
- Tractor
- Massey 1710 / 1758, Ventrac 4500Y / TD9
For me, it was a $2k difference. The primary difference was a better seat. I saved the money .... I'm very pleased with my GC1710. Seat is fine. Plenty of power.
Others know more than me, but it seems that with diesel engines the torque is maybe more important than horsepower. I'd think the torque ratings are pretty similar even with a slight HP difference. Might be something to check out?
Others know more than me, but it seems that with diesel engines the torque is maybe more important than horsepower. I'd think the torque ratings are pretty similar even with a slight HP difference. Might be something to check out?
Snobdds
Super Member
If your using ground engagement implement's off the 3 point or a snow blower on the front, get the 1715. Otherwise get the 1705. I have not ran into anything yet, including wet rock in a big pile, where I needed more power.
Bremse
Member
Main differences are:
-- 2.5 more HP (achieved by increasing max rpm and a different PTO ratio to maintain standard PTO rpm at max HP)
-- Better seat (although I find the cheaper one just fine since I'm not on it all day every day)
-- Slightly different foot pedal shape (didn't feel any better or worse to me when I compared)
-- Metal guards around the ROPS lights (can be added from the parts bin for about $70)
-- Work light (brighter LED lights are available aftermarket for little money)
To me it wasn't worth the extra ~$1200. I bought a 1710 (basically a 1705 with backhoe) and added the light guards since they seem useful. I don't use my tractor much and don't plan on doing heavy plowing and so far it has been a great machine. I have not missed any of the 1720 upgrades.
-- 2.5 more HP (achieved by increasing max rpm and a different PTO ratio to maintain standard PTO rpm at max HP)
-- Better seat (although I find the cheaper one just fine since I'm not on it all day every day)
-- Slightly different foot pedal shape (didn't feel any better or worse to me when I compared)
-- Metal guards around the ROPS lights (can be added from the parts bin for about $70)
-- Work light (brighter LED lights are available aftermarket for little money)
To me it wasn't worth the extra ~$1200. I bought a 1710 (basically a 1705 with backhoe) and added the light guards since they seem useful. I don't use my tractor much and don't plan on doing heavy plowing and so far it has been a great machine. I have not missed any of the 1720 upgrades.
edgarrian
Platinum Member
I have a 1705 and don't have a problem moving stone, dirt, or anything else a guy wants to use a tractor for. I upgraded my seat so that I would have arm rests. I couldn't believe it didn't have arm rests. Seems dumb to me. I also upgraded my lights. i believe the extra added cost is not worth it but my usage is probably different from yours. I have no intended use for a backhoe and if i do it makes more sense to rent an mini excavator to me. If you don't plan on using the tractor with backhoe attachment then you should just get a 1705. Makes sense to me.
madhatter
Gold Member
I went thru the same thing deciding between a GC1710 and GC1720. Biggest advantage I saw was the seat, as the GC1710 or GC1705 seat is in my opinion, horrible. Did you buy the new seat from Massey or is it an after market ??? I priced out the Massey seat and it was close to 1K !
AxleHub
Elite Member
One of the things you'll likely find is if someone bought a 1705 they'll say it isn't worth the difference lol. Well I bought a gc1715. I'm sure a gc1705 is a great machine. But here are things to consider:
1a. Most will highlight the seat. . But unless you have looked close you'll miss 3 big things about the seat. The gray seat on the gc1715 is "material formed" which means it will keep it's shape locked in place for years. The gc1705 gray seat is "material loose" so it flattens as it is used. Better back support and better side support come with the formed unit (comfortable but supportive).
1b. Under neath the gray seat on the gc1715 it has an entirely different metal bracketing structure which allows you to reverse the seat adjuster stop and gain about 3 more inches of leg room with no cutting or drilling or misalignment with sensors. the only thing it does is give you more room with no negatives. unscrew 2 bolts - spin the stop bracket 180 degrees and refasten the 2 bolts and you're done.
1c. The gc1705 is a coil suspension seat. The gc1715 is both coil and spring suspension. Soooooo . . . If you are on a washboard lawn or rough surface driveway or road etc., the gc1715 seat absorbs frequent small bumps better. In other words. . You don't get jostled about, because the spring suspension portion absorbs the smaller or more frequent bumps. Think of it like a car - you have springs and you have shocks both working together.
2. Now about the power differences. Not only do you add a few more HP but you also get an increased hydraulic pumps output.
Many ground engaging implements have suggested PTO hp needs. So how does added hydraulic pumps output and additional hp help other than for 3pt ground engaging? It means that you also get greater lift for a bucket or forks or grapple. As an example, at 2500 rpm I lift a pallet of landscape blocks xxx in quantity and lift it 42 inches. But becuase of the GC1715 design differences I can be at 3000 rpm and can add additional blocks onto that exact same existing pallet load and lift them to the same 42 inch height. Same with logs in a grapple or ????
And what about for mmm use. I have the dedicated MF mulching deck. With it I can cut up to 7 inch grasses without any problems even damp. And if it gets really healthy and thick grasses - I can further increase the hp available to keep a clean cut.
3. Then as mentioned there are the steel guards on the directionals is a plus and also there is an additional worklight wired and working on the ROPS. And if you want to make it led. . Then the wiring and mounting are already in place and you simply take off the existing light and put on an led. . Quick and fast. No wiring or rewiring to do.
Now seats on the gc1710 and gc1720 is another whole story because of the swivel situation once again bracketing is different.
Summary: Am I glad I spent $1100 for the gc1715 over the gc1705 ??? Though money is dear to me, I'd absolutely do it again. I notice big differences in combined comfort benefits and power differences in performance for my purposes. I'd say the same physical sizing benefits and convenience of a MF GC tractor and implement usage . . . . but with 10% more power and XX% more comfort I think it is worth the 8% change in price especially if you have a dl95 loader which offers higher weight limits compared to the dl100 loader. Or if you are using a mmm on a quality lawn that doesn't always have 4 inch grass and no dampness to it.
But both the GC 1705 and GC1715 are not only popular tractors - but also great performers. Its all based on buyers needs.
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edgarrian
Platinum Member
Mine was 400 still expensive but oh well
AxleHub
Elite Member
Edwardian, for 400 dollars did you get just the physical seat or did you also get the bracketry and slide mechanism/coil springs etc?
edgarrian
Platinum Member
It does have the coil springs but unsure about everything else. Im out of state for work or id look.
OP
gunner76
Member
I went ahead and told my local dealer to put my name on one of the 1715s with loader and mower when they get there next shipment of new ones in, they told me it would probably be in a week or two. He quoted me $16600 OTD which is about standard for my area. I could've saved around $500 if I wanted to drive three hours to a bigger dealer but for something like this I'd rather stay local in case I have issues and need service work.
AxleHub
Elite Member
So in a week or two there will be another new owner/operator with smiles all over the horizon lol
Are you financing. . What rate was offered? What size mmm ? What implements might you be considering ? Hope you have a good camera. Lol
plowhog
Elite Member
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2015
- Messages
- 4,054
- Location
- North. NV, North. CA
- Tractor
- Massey 1710 / 1758, Ventrac 4500Y / TD9
Congratulations! I'm sure you will get a lot of good use out of it. We need photos!!!
OP
gunner76
Member
I'm going to finance half of the purchase price. I could pay for it all but with the low interest rates there's no reason not to finance for a couple of years. The dealer quoted me 3.9% for 48 months and I would get the $1700 rebate(included in the price he quoted me) or I could take the 0% and lose the rebate. I'm going to take the 3.9% and finance it for 48 months which will save me around a grand over the 0% if I let the loan go the full duration. I'll probably end up paying it off next year after tax time. My bank wants me to finance it through them so I think I might be able to get the interest a little bit cheaper if I push them.
I'm getting the 60" MMM. It's way over kill for the double lot I have but since I'm already getting the machine for snow removal I just as well get the MMM and get 12 months use out of it. It'll probably only take me a 1/2hr to mow my lawn with it. I'm sure the neighbors will think I'm crazy(or rich)for using a diesel powered MFWD mower for a city lawn:laughing:.Only implement I'll probably get right away is a rear blade, I'm considering a tiller but I don't think I could find enough gardens to till to justify having it. Depending on how well the loader treats me for snow removal this winter there could be a snow blower in my future.
I'm getting the 60" MMM. It's way over kill for the double lot I have but since I'm already getting the machine for snow removal I just as well get the MMM and get 12 months use out of it. It'll probably only take me a 1/2hr to mow my lawn with it. I'm sure the neighbors will think I'm crazy(or rich)for using a diesel powered MFWD mower for a city lawn:laughing:.Only implement I'll probably get right away is a rear blade, I'm considering a tiller but I don't think I could find enough gardens to till to justify having it. Depending on how well the loader treats me for snow removal this winter there could be a snow blower in my future.
dnw64
Veteran Member
There is no way to "measure horsepower". The only power metric you can measure is torque. HP is just a way to express the work of torque and is actually a very simple formula, i.e. torque x RPM x constant.
IOW, if a torque "curve" is relatively flat all you need to do to get a higher HP number is increase RPM. From everything I can tell this is what M-F did to get more HP and pump flow out of the 1705. They did change the injector pump, because the one used on the 1705 was at the borderline of being able to provide enough fuel, and the higher RPM/HP required more than it could keep up with. The hydraulic pump on the 1715/1720 is not bigger or more efficient, it simply turns faster, which provides more flow.
Bottom line is, if you run a 1705/1710 and a 1715/1720 at the same RPM (up to the max 2750 or so on the 1705) you will get the same HP. The only reason you get more HP with the 1715/1720 is because they have allowed it to rev higher (3000 RPM).
One major difference is that the gearing of the PTO is different between the 1705/1710 and 1715/1720 so that the PTO output remains 540/2000 at the rated HP. So even though you will be generating the same HP at, say, 2600 RPM on both variants, your PTO speed will be slower on the 1715/1720.
FWIW, the HP rating on the 1705/1710 (which is the same on the 2300/2400) is at 2600 PRM, but according to my manual the High Idle of that engine is 2660-2760. So assuming the torque curve is still pretty flat at that point (which, barring fuel starvation because of an inadequate injector pump, it must be, based on the 1715/1720 numbers) the difference between 2760 and the rated 2600 is just over 6%. So if your 1705/1710 came from the factory tuned at the high end of the range (or you get your mechanic to do so) you will be roughly halfway to the rated HP of a 1715/1720. Again, the major difference being that, if you are using PTO powered implements, their speed will also be proportionately higher. Whether that makes a difference, good or bad, may vary. But it's pretty good as far snow throwing goes
AxleHub
Elite Member
Only one current fel available - but there are at least 4 mmm options regardless of GC1705 or GC1715
AxleHub
Elite Member
Greetings,
As stated in more than 1 thread, I've seen too many times where a poster has said that the 22.5 hp engine found in the GC1705 and GC1710 is the same engine as the 25 HP engine found in the GC1715 and GC1720 and all it is is just RPM increased. And I've said I didn't believe it. We've also seen some posters who claim that the part numbers of the components are identical and again I stated there was no logic to having 2 sizes of units that were identical if they were priced differently.
So nuts, I contacted AGCO directly to ask. Here's what they sent me:
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Both 23 and 25HP machines are built to spec according to the load transferred through the drive lines and the rest of the tractor frame. Both models utilize the same engine, but in order to accommodate more HP, minor fuel injection adjustments are made by MF certified factory technicians. MF does not condone, nor will it support, any machine that has been modified from the factory spec.
Thank You,
AGCO Answers
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I take that to mean:
1. there is a difference in injection and it is not just altering the governor to increase existing rpm
2. because of the difference of hp and torque created in each size - the drive train and frame are altered to accommodate the differences in hp and torque. That could mean heavier/thicker metal or it could mean different grades of steel/alloys to handle the hp and torque issues.
3. it also means altering your GC1705 or GC1710 to increase RPMs is explicitly not supported by warranty, because #1 and #2 above are different for the 22.5 hp engined models compared to the 25 hp engined models.
As stated in more than 1 thread, I've seen too many times where a poster has said that the 22.5 hp engine found in the GC1705 and GC1710 is the same engine as the 25 HP engine found in the GC1715 and GC1720 and all it is is just RPM increased. And I've said I didn't believe it. We've also seen some posters who claim that the part numbers of the components are identical and again I stated there was no logic to having 2 sizes of units that were identical if they were priced differently.
So nuts, I contacted AGCO directly to ask. Here's what they sent me:
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Both 23 and 25HP machines are built to spec according to the load transferred through the drive lines and the rest of the tractor frame. Both models utilize the same engine, but in order to accommodate more HP, minor fuel injection adjustments are made by MF certified factory technicians. MF does not condone, nor will it support, any machine that has been modified from the factory spec.
Thank You,
AGCO Answers
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I take that to mean:
1. there is a difference in injection and it is not just altering the governor to increase existing rpm
2. because of the difference of hp and torque created in each size - the drive train and frame are altered to accommodate the differences in hp and torque. That could mean heavier/thicker metal or it could mean different grades of steel/alloys to handle the hp and torque issues.
3. it also means altering your GC1705 or GC1710 to increase RPMs is explicitly not supported by warranty, because #1 and #2 above are different for the 22.5 hp engined models compared to the 25 hp engined models.
AxleHub
Elite Member
I can only tell you my opinion - I wanted - the cockpit layout, sizing, and "fit and feel" of a Massey GC1700 with the best seat and strongest engine and pumps I could get in that size of unit. I also specified I wanted the DL95 loader because again - I wanted the greatest capacities in the specific size of the GC sub compact. So to me - it was definitely justified to invest just over $1,000 to accomplish that. And I can see the difference in fel lifting power between 2500 rpm and 3000 rpm with forks and payload capacity. I can see it in grass cutting deep grass. And I can imagine it would show up in 3pt pto output if I was digging holes or tilling.
My point is not that the GC1705 isn't a very good machine - my point is for just over $1,000 more I gained more power and more comfort without having to get something too big for my needs (different size tractor or different brand that I didn't like as well). I knew my needs of steep hills and slopes and a desire to do many things on a well kept lawn without tearing it up or sacrificing stable handling. Just my opinion for my needs. That $1000 over a period of 10 years is what 1 beer a week less LOL.
