Electric Cars: Chev Bolt seems to be the first practical one.

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   / Electric Cars: Chev Bolt seems to be the first practical one. #171  
The system BMW uses on gas vehicles (efficientDynamics) uses a clutch on the alternator and only engages the clutch when you are braking or coasting / engine braking (assuming the starting battery is sufficiently charged, otherwise it engages all the time). So with a charged starting battery, the alternator only runs in cases where it won't sap power off the engine and use fuel. Small effect but still a pretty clever trick. There aren't any regenerative brakes, and no motors/generators/etc in the driveline, it's simply smart use of the alternator with the gas engine.
 
   / Electric Cars: Chev Bolt seems to be the first practical one. #172  
The system BMW uses on gas vehicles (efficientDynamics) uses a clutch on the alternator and only engages the clutch when you are braking or coasting / engine braking (assuming the starting battery is sufficiently charged, otherwise it engages all the time). So with a charged starting battery, the alternator only runs in cases where it won't sap power off the engine and use fuel. Small effect but still a pretty clever trick. There aren't any regenerative brakes, and no motors/generators/etc in the driveline, it's simply smart use of the alternator with the gas engine.

I wonder how much more expensive it would be for manufacturers to use a simplified version of hybrid electric in place of an alternator and starter. I'm thinking of the ?Mercedes strategy of having a single electric engine in line mated to the transmission which can serve as starter, alternator and supplemental power linked to a larger than starting battery but less than a full hybrid/electric car size battery bank. All that regenerative braking energy is "free" and would help the car off the line as well as preserve brake pads. It wouldn't make much difference to MPG on the highway but in town it should add a few. I think Mazda has a system that stores energy temporarily in a large capacitor which is an interesting way to get around the added weight of a bigger battery. A ten to fifteen percent increase in MPG around town would save over 500 gallons of gas over 100K. Depending on price of gas, that plus savings on alternator, starter and brakes might start to make sense.
 
   / Electric Cars: Chev Bolt seems to be the first practical one. #173  
I wonder how much more expensive it would be for manufacturers to use a simplified version of hybrid electric in place of an alternator and starter. I'm thinking of the ?Mercedes strategy of having a single electric engine in line mated to the transmission which can serve as starter, alternator and supplemental power linked to a larger than starting battery but less than a full hybrid/electric car size battery bank. All that regenerative braking energy is "free" and would help the car off the line as well as preserve brake pads. It wouldn't make much difference to MPG on the highway but in town it should add a few. I think Mazda has a system that stores energy temporarily in a large capacitor which is an interesting way to get around the added weight of a bigger battery. A ten to fifteen percent increase in MPG around town would save over 500 gallons of gas over 100K. Depending on price of gas, that plus savings on alternator, starter and brakes might start to make sense.

My mind went to a giant garage door spring that winds up when breaking then immediately unwinds on the next acceleration.
 
   / Electric Cars: Chev Bolt seems to be the first practical one. #174  
My mind went to a giant garage door spring that winds up when breaking then immediately unwinds on the next acceleration.

I suppose there are mechanical devices that could serve as part of a regenerative braking system too. The "giant garage door spring" might be a bit unwieldy and dangerous (I hate those things) but a flywheel might work. Trouble is coupling the brakes to such a mechanical transfer system. Sounds more complex than just using an electric motor in reverse.
 
   / Electric Cars: Chev Bolt seems to be the first practical one.
  • Thread Starter
#175  
I Googled 'regenerative braking' and found several schemes described in the Wikipedia article. For example some sort of mechanical device was tried in racecars a few years ago.

One widespread use of braking by electric motors run in reverse is ordinary diesel locomotives. Going down a grade, the traction motors at the wheels push electricity into huge resistors above the diesel engines where fans push the heat out vents on the side. Also where trains are powered from overhead catenary wires, in some cases electric braking pushes the power back into the grid.
 
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   / Electric Cars: Chev Bolt seems to be the first practical one.
  • Thread Starter
#176  
I stopped by a Chevrolet dealer yesterday in Vallejo. They had about 40 Bolts in a row and a similar number of Volts next to them. Each had a $4k 'additional profit' sticker in addition to MSRP.

I think buickanddeere's skepticism is justified. Both are generic modern compact cars with a $10,000 premium for the 'look at me' attribute. That premium is justified for an enhanced-performance Mustang or something but the only thing special about these EV's is their specifications, not their characteristics as transportation. The price premium would never be recovered by fuel savings and the cars themselves are nothing special.

One deficiency that is meaningful to me, may not be for others: I shuttle back and forth between home, where I have unavoidable responsibilities, and ranch, where I would prefer to be all the time. 100 miles each way. There is always luggage, an ice chest and grocery box, and in summer boxes of harvested fruit for friends in town. Sometimes a bicycle or construction materials etc. The hatchback design is useful on both these Chevys but with an absurd design flaw: The rear seat folded leaves a 10 inch gap from the platform to the back of the front seats, for cargo to fall into under heavy braking. This is in contrast to my Ford Focus Wagon and Subaru Outback where the rear seat cushion folds forward providing a backstop for anything sliding forward. (And 10 more inches of flat cargo space right where I load things from the side doors). I foresee years of frustration replacing my present functional little cargo haulers with this modern equivalent.

That particular point (flat rear deck) was emphasized a few minutes after leaving that dealer. In a left turn lane waiting to turn from boulevard to freeway onramp, my light went green and I started off briskly anticipating merging onto the freeway. Some fool facing me who had been waiting at his red light started off suddenly an instant later headon to me against his red light. I nearly broadsided him, braked hard and gambed I wouldn't be rearended by the Mercedes hot on my tail. Nothing touched, but the three of us (and whatever was behind the Mercedes) missed crashing by inches. This emergency stop would have dumped whatever was in the back of those little Chevys into the gap in front of their folded rear seats. Why would I want to pay a premium for transportation less useful than what it replaced?

Looking at car reviews and Consumer Reports, it looks to me that a used 2014 Volt that just came off lease might be the most cost effective hybrid. A Prius V would also suit my application but everything I've read says the Volts are more pleasant to drive, at similar cost buying used. Either would be some $15,000 cheaper than a new fully-optioned Bolt.
 
   / Electric Cars: Chev Bolt seems to be the first practical one. #177  
Seems like another company has entered the fray, with a pickup - W-15 Pickup | Workhorse

Initial purchase price seems high, and I don't have any idea of how long their battery pack is warranted, but it looks good on the first look.
 
   / Electric Cars: Chev Bolt seems to be the first practical one.
  • Thread Starter
#178  
Seems like another company has entered the fray, with a pickup - W-15 Pickup | Workhorse

Initial purchase price seems high, and I don't have any idea of how long their battery pack is warranted, but it looks good on the first look.
Interesting! "The W-15 comes equipped with an external 7.2 kw power outlet providing up to 30 amps directly from the vehicle battery pack." There's the inverter solution recently discussed here.

"Chassis Assembly Plant
940 South Rt. 32
Union City, IN 47390"

Hey MossRoad - is that close enough to go for a looksee?

Added: Google search indicates that plant was used to put RV coachwork on Chevrolet chassises (chassix?) until recently.
 
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   / Electric Cars: Chev Bolt seems to be the first practical one. #179  
Interesting! "The W-15 comes equipped with an external 7.2 kw power outlet providing up to 30 amps directly from the vehicle battery pack." There's the inverter solution recently discussed here.

"Chassis Assembly Plant
940 South Rt. 32
Union City, IN 47390"

Hey MossRoad - is that close enough to go for a looksee?

Added: Google search indicates that plant was used to put RV coachwork on Chevrolet chassises (chassix?) until recently.

I read about this a week or so ago. Seems they are geared to contractors, imagine not needing a gas powered air compressor or generator because you can run your stuff off your truck? Pretty cool idea and one less thing to maintain. I think I read this company has been doing box vans for a bit.
Step Vans | Workhorse
 
   / Electric Cars: Chev Bolt seems to be the first practical one. #180  
The hatchback design is useful on both these Chevys but with an absurd design flaw: The rear seat folded leaves a 10 inch gap from the platform to the back of the front seats, for cargo to fall into under heavy braking. This is in contrast to my Ford Focus Wagon and Subaru Outback where the rear seat cushion folds forward providing a backstop for anything sliding forward. (And 10 more inches of flat cargo space right where I load things from the side doors). I foresee years of frustration replacing my present functional little cargo haulers with this modern equivalent.
Out of curiosity, are the bottom cushions of the back seats intended to flip forward and up to fill in this gap?
I know that on my Volvos they had that gap unless you flipped the bottom of seat forward.

Aaron Z
 
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