Is gasoline really only 10% ethanol?

[MultiMow]

Ohio is one of a few states that has no checks and balances on gasoline octane levels or ethanol percentage like Michigan and Texas. If a tanker doesn't meet, say Michigan standards, then it gets driven to Ohio and dumped in our gas station tanks. The county auditor checks to be sure you get a measured gallon of gas, but no Ohio authority verifies octane content or ethanol content of gasoline sold here.

Hence the reason why "Turbo Blue" was so popular in the early 2000's.

I had seen a couple stations advertising 116 race gas when I was living up there. I talked to a couple of local circuit guys when I was living near Cincinnati... they busted the claim. Most of them were running engines calibrated for 112 or 108, and nearly all of them said they had to ****** their ignition timing when they tried to run the "racing pump gas".

"Turbo Blue" was slightly more tolerant to a hot street engine, but the low power density was a piss poor trade off.... did I mention it was HORRIBLE for most fuel systems of the day?

 

[MultiMow]

I have read that the use of 100% gasoline is regulated to a specified amount sold in some states. I don't really understand that at all nor how they limit the sale. I have two stations within 12 miles of me that sell non-ethanol gasoline not to mention all the marinas and the 100% pure gas in the super high octane gasoline (example Shell Premium which is ethanol free). There seem to be more and more stations around here that are selling pure gas and it is usually about 30 cents a gallon higher if you just buy regular (87 and 89 Octane). IIRC the Shell premium is over a dollar higher per gallon, I don't buy much of that (one tank fill up in my motorcycle at end of riding season )

Not all Shell premium is ethanol free. More than 95% of the Shell premium pumps in Virginia are still ethanol blend. Another point is that "100% gasoline" doesn't necessarily mean it's any better than ethanol blend. Shell uses process that bonds an additional nitrogen atom to the molecular chains, which stabilizes the fuel and adds an addition hydrogen atom. Problem? It burns cooler, and produces less power by mass than pure gasoline. It is SLIGHTLY better at knock resistance than ethanol, but there's virtually no performance benefit, aside from keeping the knock in your older engine at bay.

Ethanol blended fuels were basically nothing more than an alternative way to boost the U.S. economy (it's actually hurting us in the long run, but that's a whole other story). It gave farmers a new crop, it killed older cars, it boosted new car sales, it (for once) got the EPA and farmers on common ground, and increased the economic network dependence of oil companies. It was a great government bandaid to government stab wound when it was introduced... and it's still festering today. I just hope I'm not around to suffer through the amputation when the gangrene sets in.

 

[sixdogs]

Some pure gas with no ethanol cost me $1.35 a gallon MORE than regular gas last week. Looks like a a government concocted monopoly.

 

[MultiMow]

Some pure gas with no ethanol cost me $1.35 a gallon MORE than regular gas last week. Looks like a a government concocted monopoly.

Many states tax the mortal **** out of straight gas... for good reason. Everyone would buy it, if it didn't cost so much.

A little common sense into the refining/blending process will tell you... a straight refined product costing more than a blended product of less power density, higher water retention, and lower production effeciency... you can't possibly tell me something isn't amiss.

 

[Copperhead]

That is somewhat true. The EPA does have a general 14 billion gallons of ethanol mandate to be used annually, but doesn't necessarily specify how it is used. It can be used up in the higher blends like E15, E20, E30, E50, E85 if folks bought more of those blends for the flex fuel vehicles. That would free up a lot of gasoline that didn't have any ethanol in it at all. States are where the problem lies. State governments play the games with ethanol. I have noticed that states that have a statewide mandate for E10, hardly offer any of the other higher blends in many locations. That is because they want everyone to use ethanol in all the gasoline, so they restrict the higher blends from sucking up the available ethanol. Now, a state like Iowa where I live, E0 is all over the place, along with all the higher blends I mentioned. The state doesn't dictate what people have to buy, they just allow a wide range of selections and let the consumer decide for themselves. Some stations might not offer ethanol free, but that is a retail decision probably based on a limited number of storage tanks, but not a state or federal mandate. Even with that, ethanol laced gasoline outsells non ethanol by a considerable margin. The pricing is what makes that happen, as ethanol free regular gas typically is in the 30-40 cent per gallon higher range than E10. Still, I can get ethanol free gas at any of a dozen locations within 15 miles of my house.

The pricing difference between E10 and E0 is a little extreme and the states play games with that as well. But in all fairness, fuels are a commodity market driven cost and gasoline is selling on the commodity market at a higher price than ethanol, so not all of the price difference is taxation or whatever. Closing price on ethanol at the commodity market today was $1.53. Gasoline closed at $1.59. Back a few years ago when fuel prices were in the stratosphere, the price difference was well over $1 a gallon, and even bumped $2 a gallon sometimes. That is why I used so much E85 back in those days. The difference in price at the pump was typically $1 or more cheaper for E85. So while it delivered a lower fuel economy, it still was cheaper to use on a cost per mile basis.

 

[F12farmall]

How true. Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether or MTBE has a BTU content of 93,000 BTU/Gal vs 76,300 BTU/Gal Ethanol.

 

[Copperhead]

For present flex fuel engines, it makes a difference. For engines that are specifically designed for E85, the BTU content is hardly relevant. the Ricardo 3.6L EBDI E85 engine produces the same power (HP and Torque) of a 6.6L Duramx diesel and delivers equivalent fuel economy. The Cummins 2.8L E85 engine delivers the same power as the 5.7L Hemi engine, and better fuel economy to boot. It would be nice to have an option for a true E85 engine to really reap the benefits of E85 as opposed to traditional engines that can use E85 as an afterthought.

 

[Texasmark]

That is somewhat true. The EPA does have a general 14 billion gallons of ethanol mandate to be used annually, but doesn't necessarily specify how it is used. It can be used up in the higher blends like E15, E20, E30, E50, E85 if folks bought more of those blends for the flex fuel vehicles. That would free up a lot of gasoline that didn't have any ethanol in it at all. States are where the problem lies. State governments play the games with ethanol. I have noticed that states that have a statewide mandate for E10, hardly offer any of the other higher blends in many locations. That is because they want everyone to use ethanol in all the gasoline, so they restrict the higher blends from sucking up the available ethanol. Now, a state like Iowa where I live, E0 is all over the place, along with all the higher blends I mentioned. The state doesn't dictate what people have to buy, they just allow a wide range of selections and let the consumer decide for themselves. Some stations might not offer ethanol free, but that is a retail decision probably based on a limited number of storage tanks, but not a state or federal mandate. Even with that, ethanol laced gasoline outsells non ethanol by a considerable margin. The pricing is what makes that happen, as ethanol free regular gas typically is in the 30-40 cent per gallon higher range than E10. Still, I can get ethanol free gas at any of a dozen locations within 15 miles of my house.

The pricing difference between E10 and E0 is a little extreme and the states play games with that as well. But in all fairness, fuels are a commodity market driven cost and gasoline is selling on the commodity market at a higher price than ethanol, so not all of the price difference is taxation or whatever. Closing price on ethanol at the commodity market today was $1.53. Gasoline closed at $1.59. Back a few years ago when fuel prices were in the stratosphere, the price difference was well over $1 a gallon, and even bumped $2 a gallon sometimes. That is why I used so much E85 back in those days. The difference in price at the pump was typically $1 or more cheaper for E85. So while it delivered a lower fuel economy, it still was cheaper to use on a cost per mile basis.

Some good points. I live in an area with metropolitan area government mentality and I think Texas lawmakers in Austin share that sentiment.......limit it to 10% so that everybody uses it. My county is a smog controlled county so annually the motor vehicle inspection includes an emission test. The machines are linked to the state, and each test and the results are electronically sent back to/controlled by Austin. No where around here have I seen non ethanol gasoline. Only once have I seen an ad for non-ethanol gas and it was way up on the Red River in a low population county...Gainsville, TX.

 

[def38]

I wish we would go back to MTBE as the oxygenate of choice. Cheaper than ethanol, made from natural gas and works well. Still used throughput the EU and other regions.

 

[sixdogs]

I wish we would go back to MTBE as the oxygenate of choice. Cheaper than ethanol, made from natural gas and works well. Still used throughput the EU and other regions.

I'm under the impression it is a known carcinogen?

As well when I lived in Maine there were numerous reports that MTBE had infiltrated the groundwater and was said to be found in --I think--100% ? of the drinking water wells in the state. I know that I spilled maybe a teaspoon full on the grass late one summer and next spring nothing would grow there. When I dug the spot out to dispose of the dirt, there was a foul smelling odor that faintly smelled like gasoline and mostly like something else. Beats me.