Won't stay running John Deere Z997 ZTR Mower Year 2008

[feoneill9]

Coyote: Thanks for the info. Almost 100% of this machine is electrical. What item in the mechanical area could cause a total shut down quickly and positively final and start up again quickly? The injectors? cams, crank, timing chain, starter, fuel pump- remember fuel is delivered electrically. What please?

When the rain stops I'II check the real pull in relay.

If it persists- the stopping unexpectedly, I have a decision to make, namely, do I want to put $4,000.00 into this 10 year old machine with its aging wires and ungodly relays, fuses, diodes, and solenoids to fix the pull in fuel solenoid or buy a used $4,000.00 Toro or Esmark ZTR? Then try to sell this machine piece meal for parts to get something for it. There is one locally with almost 3000 hours for $4,500.00. Do I buy that for parts for this machine? Who knows?

Remember, I need a machine to cut grass, now. It rains every day and fescue grass loves that and the heat and humidity.

Thanks for your input.

Any body know where I can just buy the fuel solenoid new or used without the fuel pump JD part AM882534?

Or where to get the solenoid repaired?

Or where to buy a new solenoid- no JD part number but it is a Woodford.

 

[Coyote machine]

I'm just being devil's advocate here, hopefully to your benefit. Believe me I've been where you are with foreign autos. I worked on Mercedes and other cars when I had my shop, that there were no diagrams or parts lists for, grey market European versions that had no place in the States; and tore my hair out trying to fix some of them, for hours and hours and countless parts, etc.

I would suspect that though you feel 'everything' is controlled on your mower electrically, and I'm NOT saying you're wrong about that thought process, some things may be electrically energized BUT they are still mechanical when it comes right down to it. For instance you're into the fuel area and the $4000000 solenoid currently. A solenoid is a mechanical device which can be opened or shut by an electrical signal. So, if you suspect the solenoid find where it is energized and when, then see if it shuts down at or prior to the engine cutting out. It sounds like, from what you have been saying most recently that it could indeed be cutting off and if fuel supply is cut off so would the engine's running. So verify the solenoid's electrical supply and see if it drops off at the point of engine shutdown. If it does, THEN you're onto something useful. Whether it would be an instant shutoff or somewhat gradual I can only speculate. All I'm urging you to do is diagnose first, then replace whatever part fails to pass the test. Otherwise you will continue to replace parts until you go completely broke.

And prior to that maybe buy the other mower and use yours for spare parts for it. If you can get an entire mower for what a fuel solenoid/pump assembly costs new, then to me that would be the wiser move.
I get that when you're in deep, and man you are the definition of being in so deep you can't see daylight; consider taking a step back from the problem and clear your mind. I get that the grass keeps growing and it won't stop whether you sink your last $ into this mower, or not.
I'd ask myself what is so special about having this specific mower working, vs. having another that works without all the headaches? At what point do you cry 'uncle', slap the mat and move on? There's no shame in stopping the bleeding of time and $$$$$ spent....

 

[Spanner]

Right Frank...
As I said in your other thread regarding the FIP Solenoid AND as I asked you to post your VIN (which I don't see yet)...

There is a Serial Number break on the FIP at S/n 030100. In either case ( >030100 or 030101>) I'm pretty sure the solenoid is the same "Woodward" unit.

The Parts Lists only show the solenoid separately on the latter model.

It is Part No. M806808. This is the 3-wire unit with all 3 plastic covered wires in an outer clear plastic cover tube same as you described yours being.
You will also be well advised to buy the accompanying O-Ring #RG60092.

Do not order the $4,000,000 Injection Pump (at this stage) as Coyote says - You need to be sure you need one.

It seems you are resigned to throwing parts at the problem rather than analysing the issue and possible causes. ('Diagnosing' in other words) Your call though.

Regards,
:wrench:

 

[feoneill9]

Hi Spanner: Thanks for the wake up call.

The serial number is : DM997SD021150.

The Tech manual that I have shows a break at 010001-020000)and then goes on to 020001-050000) Sometimes the diagrams are just -050000.

I was preparing for a final outcome that I hope very comes.

Much more testing is coming up. I do not want to just throw money at parts. But rather get to the cause and fix it or them.

 

[Coyote machine]

If you find the wire that supplies the fuel pump solenoid and stick a pin in it to allow you to connect a VOM to the hot wire and the chassis ground, you should be then able to tell if the solenoid is cutting off when the engine stops, or just prior to cutting out.

 

[Spanner]

So now you have 2 threads going which overlap and you have advice overlapping.

I'm staying in this thread as I have given you the JD Part Number for the solenoid and o-ring, which you asked for in your other thread.

AND - Your diagnostics are occurring in this thread.

Do you use the Online JD Parts Catalogue website? ( www.jdpc.deere.com ) It is widely referred to on TBN I see.

Yes your Tech Manual refers to various Serial number ranges. Is it the Service Manual for service and repairs? The s/n ranges usually relate to production changes in mowing deck or hydraulic/electrical layout etc. even Load-bed construction for Gators or seat style etc, etc...
Or, is it the Parts Catalogue?

There is also an "Operators Manual" published by JD which tells you how to operate the machine, service intervals, deck removal etc. Day-to-day operations usage.

To repair machines according to procedures in the Service Manual the Tech's order parts from the PARTS catalogue...

Always refer to the Parts Catalogue - where chronological changes are reflected in' Serial Number Break' notations.

From your VIN (DM997SD021150) the Serial Number is the '021150' part.
That means (For Injection Pump purposes ONLY) the Parts Catalogue splits at s/n 030100.

The JD Parts Catalogue is 99.9% awesome , but not 100% perfect.

They only show the Solenoid in the later s/n breakdown but those of us who know those 3TNV Yanmar engines know the solenoid is the same so we just look up the later model and order that.

The Parts Catalogue for your machine is #PC9477.

Looking on-line you see another catalogue #12156 for the Z997R. This is a much later model than yours so don't look in there.

I'm NOT saying to change the solenoid. I'm just saying you don't need to buy a $40,000,000 Inj. Pump to get one.

Carry-on with your diagnostics as Coyote says. I fear you have made too many changes and swaps for easy resolution but am hoping for a solution soon.
Report back to us with what you find.
Regards,
:wrench:

 

[feoneill9]

Thank you. I will try to not go off on tangents, again.

I have the Technical Service Manual. Its a TM2259 part number and cover the unit well. I have learned much from it.

I will carry on and hopefully it will be resolved. I have too much invested in the machine to fail. And will it seems I am spending wildly, the cost per
hour to have a knowledge person do this would be much more, within limits. I will definetly report back as that may help someone else in the future.

There are a fair number of these machine out there. They are a beast of a machine and will cut grass for hours at a time.

 

[hawkeye08]

I was thinking of how to further trouble shoot your problem, while it may not be electrical, it has not been ruled out. Make a list of things to check, check them off as you do them. Make notes so you can refer later.

I was thinking of getting this meter, perhaps it would benefit you (it can record data).

Mooshimeter Wireless Multimeter - - Amazon.com

 

[feoneill9]

Hi Hawkeye08
That unit seems neat. What I really need I saw on a UTube video. A mechanic was chaseing a short on a jeep. From the unit and a drawing he isolated it to a specific wire harness. Using a 12vDC probe he would get the short to trip the probe. Then knowing the short was in front of him he would use an amp meter which could tell him if the wire was hot. He kept doing that until he discovered a short from the Oxygen sensor without cutting any bundle of wires. The meter would tell him if a wire in the bundle was good or bad. Neat

 

[Coyote machine]

OP, have you done what I suggested and tested the FIP solenoid to see if it closes when the engine shuts down? If not, why not. Seems you are convinced this part is the cause now- so what's the holdup on the results? :confused2: