My new 4300 project
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larboc
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For John Deere parts I either went with my local deere dealer or green parts store. In hindsight, my local dealer took longer and was more expensive than ordering online on any parts that had to be ordered (everything). For the maxiforce kit, I bought it straight from them over the phone HOWEVER....
I blew my headgasket. Losing compression to coolant on a cylinder. I'm not sure if it was because timing somehow changed and became over advanced after I setup the static timing, or if there is an injector issue, or if there is an issue with the aftermarket gasket. The $80 John deere gasket will be here tomorrow so I'll be changing that out this weekend and trying to figure out what went wrong. I was very OCD when assembling the engine, dipped all the head bolts in deere oil before torquing with a freshly calibrated snap-on 3/8" torque wrench to 65 ft-lbs. I pulled the valve cover and checked most of the head bolts and none of them were less than 65 ft-lbs. I didn't use any compound on the gasket. I'm going to check timing on all 3 cylinders separately (3 marks on FW, viewed by removing right side loader mount arm) before running any more.
VERY DISAPPOINTED this happend, not sure what's wrong or who screwed up. Must have been me somehow, very rare to hear of a yanmar with a blown HG.
Maxiforce I went with Mytractor but I ordered it over the phone not off their eBay store. Let us know about how you make out with the head gasket. I though the head gasket looked really thin. Thank you for all the infomation it has made this task a lot easier.
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larboc
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That's the same thing I did, I don't know why I said I ordered from maxiforce directly. Hopefully I'll have time to get the head off saturday night. Pending what I find I'd be ready to pull the trigger on an OEM yanmar/jd gasket if I were you.
texasranger556
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I'll be very interested to see what you find. If the head bolts go into blind holes I've heard of oil hydrolocking the bolt and giving a false torque.
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larboc
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Did you happen to take note of how the timing marks on the idler/crank gear lined up when the rest of the marks lined up? I'm just curious.
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larboc
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I finally got around to pulling the head off. Once again the deere manual disappoints. The section for cylinder head removal procedure conspicuously omits to mention the part where you have to pull the tank to get to the back head bolts. I should have remembered this but I was trying to just go by the manual. If it wasn't for pulling the tank it would have been much easier. Regardless the head is now off.
The head gasket failed, but I'm not sure why. Rather than having a direct leaking path from the combustion chamber to coolant like I have seen before, the whole gasket had "ballooned" for lack of a better word. Combustion pressure was leaking between the metal layers somewhere and expanded the two halves of the gasket. Any where it wasn't clamped it filled up like a balloon.
The deere head gasket looks virtually identical to the maxiforce, however it seems like the maxiforce gasket might have been a little thicker (calipers said .014" vs .010")
I tried retorqueing all the headbolts before removing the head but none of them turned at 65 ft-lbs. Also checked torque wrench calibration, dead on.
Flat bar on head and block show no signs of warpage, .0015 feeler gauge wouldn't even start at any point under bar.
I'm at a loss as to why it blew. I'm going back with the JD gasket and retarding pump timing until just before I get high speed misfires.
The head gasket failed, but I'm not sure why. Rather than having a direct leaking path from the combustion chamber to coolant like I have seen before, the whole gasket had "ballooned" for lack of a better word. Combustion pressure was leaking between the metal layers somewhere and expanded the two halves of the gasket. Any where it wasn't clamped it filled up like a balloon.
The deere head gasket looks virtually identical to the maxiforce, however it seems like the maxiforce gasket might have been a little thicker (calipers said .014" vs .010")
I tried retorqueing all the headbolts before removing the head but none of them turned at 65 ft-lbs. Also checked torque wrench calibration, dead on.
Flat bar on head and block show no signs of warpage, .0015 feeler gauge wouldn't even start at any point under bar.
I'm at a loss as to why it blew. I'm going back with the JD gasket and retarding pump timing until just before I get high speed misfires.
dfkrug
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Sorry to hear of the gasket failure. Did you use new head bolts? I did not, tho on newer engines,
head bolts are designed to stretch only once to be torqued properly.
When I did mine, I did not find any aftermarket parts, such as your Maxiforce head gasket. I
suppose it could be just a poorly made gasket.
Got my engine block reinstalled today now to start adding all the exterior parts like the pumps. The machine shop assembled all the interior parts including the gears so I never got to see the timing marks.
Loving the tech manual again, putting the 2 hydraulic pumps on it seems there are no gaskets between the pumps and the engine. Also the rear of the 2 pumps has 3 different length bolts, but nothing saying which ones go where. The 2 long ones are easy to figure out but the 2 short ones are not the same length but nothing says which bolt which hole. It might not matter but I don't want to screw something up.
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larboc
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Dang, by any chance if you talk to them again could you ask? I'd like a little piece of mind on the subject.
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larboc
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Should be gaskets between them, may not have come with your kit but there were gaskets on mine. The gaskets stayed stuck to one side so I just put a light coat of RTV on them and reassembled. No leaks. I wouldn't want to run without a gasket and just use RTV as the gaskets are pretty thick and might affect the gear mesh/shaft clearance between pumps. I think you're looking for part number M805696.
JDparts is as useful, possibly more useful than the manual. Some of the bolts have lengths given, otherwise you can look up the part number on google and get a length if you get lost.
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larboc
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I did not use new head bolts. The manual only says that the crankshaft bolts and the rod bolts are one-time use bolts. Yanmar manual said the same. I checked torque on all the head bolts before removing them and none of them broke free at 65 ft lbs (torque spec.) which means the bolts didn't stretch. Head bolts which have a torque+turn spec stretch when torqued and aren't supposed to be reused or may only be reused a couple times.
I'm thinking/hoping I found the problem. The bosses for the between cylinder head bolts were higher than the cylinder wall. In a couple of spots I was able to get a 0.0015 feeler gauge under the cylinder wall when going between these bosses with a straight bar. I took a large file and ran it across the entire engine deck and got these spots down to level with the top of the cylinders. Generally 0.0015" across a deck or head wouldn't be a problem but because these spots are only 1/2" away from the cylinder wall, separated by the cooling passage, I'm suspicious the the head gasket wouldn't be able to make it up. I'm going to spray all 4 surfaces with a recommended application of copper spray before reassembling this time.
Steve, if your head is still off you might want to check the block. I first noticed when scraping the old gasket residue off with a razor blade the blade hung up on that boss. All 3 cylinders were similar.
Larboc the machine shop I used was KJE machine shop out of Rochester NH. My mechanic was Kevin. All they work on are engines. I did have to take the front off to check the injection pump timing. The main gear had 3 timing marks A,B,and C which lined up with corresponding marks on the other 3 gears. Now to check the top of the block.
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larboc
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Did it follow the tooth/groove on the crank gear like this? This is also how I remember mine looking when I tore it down originally. The only reason I question myself is because the deere manual has the crank/idler gear markes lining up as viewed from the front, not as viewed by the tooth/groove.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...-deere-4300-complete-rebuild-timing_gears-jpg
I got my head gasket back on, and for s&g's I put the pump back to the original timing mark before starting. Fired up and runs perfectly now but with a whole lot less engine noise than after I had advanced it post rebuild. Sounds more like it did originally. I didn't even check the spillover timing. I am suspicious that there was some dirt or air in my my IP that finally worked it's way out after several hours of run time, causing the injection timing to go back to original which was over advanced after I advanced the pump timing by rotating it.
The JD headgasket was definitely thinner than the maxiforce, I could tell when adjusting valve lash, but I don't think there was anything wrong with the maxiforce gasket. I think it was combination of over advancing of the pump and the head bolt bosses being a thou proud of the cylinder walls.
Regardless, the tractor runs better now than it ever has, not nearly as much block noise, and the exhaust smells better. Now on to more fun stuff (hopefully)!
Winmac
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By bosses are you referring to the block area around the top of the head bolt thread?
The fact that they are proud may indicate that the threads are failing and beginning to pull out of the block, hope not but a possibility
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larboc
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You didn't take the pump sprocket off the pump did you? I think in order to do that you have to pull the IP sprocket off (hole in plate is too small for gear?) which I believe I have read is a big mistake.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...341057-deere-x495-rebuild-injection-pump.html
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larboc
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That's what I'm referring to, but the area around that bolt is not connected to the cylinder wall by the casting and the entire boss was high, not just the area around the threads. It's an "open deck" block. The 4 "thumbs" in this picture are the bosses I'm referring to as being a little high.
I don't think the threads are in any danger of pulling or failing, the head hasn't been off enough times to start causing any issues, especially in cast iron. I've seen threads start to pull in aluminum blocks with TTY bolts after 10 or so head swaps, but this head had only been off once when the gasket went.
