I'm Done With Branson

[EddieWalker]

Thanks Larry, I didn't know there where two fusible links. I found the first one and replaced it. I'll look for the second one when I get home tonight.

 

[DavesTractor]

Dave, I really like your customers service oriented response. It show's that you still have a good customer service attitude about things. I commend you in your attitude. And you are right, it is mainly the other Branson dealers out there. Yet Branson needs to stand up and make a few changes in requiring the dealers out there to do a little better. As you already know, and I might add are smart enough, parts availability can be the making or breaking of a company. I would hate to see Branson going by the way side in the future because of this parts issue. Thay make a fine tractor and at a more reasonable price than most. Mine is a 2005 3510. I have worked the bejesus out of it throughout the first 10 years and I have had only 2 real problems. A fuel pump issue which I replace with a aftermarket one with a metal plunger in it instead of the one from Branson which has a plastic plunger. Nut in all fairness it lasted 5 or six years. The other was a couple of electrical problems with some connectors. They caused starting problems and was difficult to find and fix, especially with the wiring so very tight. Branson and all tractors alike have some little design flaws which are a little aggravating and unique to their brand (just like cars), however It is overall a really good tractor. It is dependable abd very strong. Thank you for your post it was excellent.

Thanks for the kind words Larry. We have sold enough Bransons to know what tends to go wrong. Of course you don't know that for a year or three or five. But it does not take a lot of shelf space to stock the needed parts. Fuel shutoff motor for the early units, the little fuel lift pump that you described, tie rod ends for the early 2000 non-"I" models, the plastic power-steering tank for the early models, etc. When you sell a couple two-three-hundred units a year you start to see trends. And I am sure it is that way with all brands. But sometimes we guess wrong. Sometimes you see a couple failures in a row and order up a bunch of spare parts....and no more failures. It is a little bit of a guessing game, but the more volume you sell the easier it is to figure out.

There are quite a few really, really good Branson dealers. But there are also some that probably should go back to selling used equipment or whatever they were doing when they decided to take on a new tractor line. But some of those little unlikely to succeed dealers grow to become super good high volume dealers. This is somewhat of a pattern across the newish brands. In theory they will only take on a dealer with all sorts of good attributes. But in reality if a guy will buy 15 tractors and has good credit he has met a big part of the requirement. We are a volume Mahindra dealer and they were the same as they ramped up. Now they are toeing the line much more and new Mahindra dealers tend to be more established and more likely to succeed. As Branson gets more good dealers and grows, I suspect the poorer performing dealers will be dropped and better ones will replace them. Meanwhile, some of these dealers damage the brands reputation.

 

[DavesTractor]

Thanks Larry, I didn't know there where two fusible links. I found the first one and replaced it. I'll look for the second one when I get home tonight.

Eddie. I found a wiring schematic. I will upload it soon.

 

[EddieWalker]

Eddie. I found a wiring schematic. I will upload it soon.

Thank you VERY MUCH, I'm looking forward to it!!!!

 

[k0ua]

Just read through this. We are one of the largest Branson dealers in the USA. It is embarrassing to know that there are dealers that do not stock parts. A dealer that will not stock parts ought not to be a dealer. Parts are a profit center, it makes no sense to not stock them. At least filters and fast moving parts. And as a dealer grows and has more units in his area, he can grow his parts supply.

As for Branson not responding, we do not see that. Yet it is rare that a customer of ours wants or needs to speak with Branson. A dealer ought to do all of that. Even if a customer has a complaint about warranty coverage or something like that, the dealer needs to advocate for his customer.

As for Branson not responding directly to the customer, I think that is wrong. Even if the question is really just an unsolvable complaint, the customer should have a response. There may be a time that a customer is beating a dead horse, communication at that point might change a little. But I think it is always wrong to ignore a customer.

In summary, I'd like to blame the poor dealer and not Branson. But I will acknowledge that Branson is the one that set up the dealer and allows him to remain a dealer, so they must shoulder some blame.

There are quite a few larger dealers across the USA that will UPS/FedEx you parts. The closer they are to you, the cheaper and faster the shipping will be. It makes little sense for us to send parts from California to the east coast, so this response is not a veiled advertisement for parts orders. Support your local dealer, or if you do not have one, you next closest good dealer.

We should all have dealers as responsive and caring as this.

 

[DavesTractor]

If I have done this correctly, here is some wiring info for the pre Cummins Branson and Century tractors.

 

[k0ua]

Eddie notice that the 12 volts from the battery goes from the battery to a fusible link then to a 5 millimeter white wire to the B terminal on the key switch. Trace back that white wire.

 

[EddieWalker]

View attachment 518261View attachment 518262View attachment 518263View attachment 518264View attachment 518265View attachment 518266

If I have done this correctly, here is some wiring info for the pre Cummins Branson and Century tractors.

This is amazing!!! Thank you very much, it makes it all look so much easier to see what goes where.

 

[EddieWalker]

Eddie notice that the 12 volts from the battery goes from the battery to a fusible link then to a 5 millimeter white wire to the B terminal on the key switch. Trace back that white wire.

Yes sir, that's going to be plan A!!!

 

[Texasmark]

TYM bought out Branson's parent company. Will both brands still exist 5 years from now, or will one be an orphan tractor (like Montana, Farmtrac, Scorpion, Century, etc.)? If that happens parts will be difficult to come by and resale value will plummet.

I was exposed to this rumor also. In that it was said that they wanted the Cummins licensed engine manufacturing capability that Branson has. That Cummins (licensed) engine is why I bought my 6530 in the first place (B 3.3 NA)....along with lots of other things. With the 2400 I got one too (A 1100 N).

 

[airbiscuit]

Both of these orphan tractor lines have Branson fingerprints on them. I'm just wondering if something like that might happen to Branson itself now that TYM has purchased its parent company.

From Tractor Data:
Century was a US trade name for compact tractors built by the Kukje Machinery Company of South Korea and distributed by American Jawa from 2000 to 2006. The Century brand disappeared around 2006 when Kukje consolidated its products in North America under the Branson brand and American Jawa moved to the TYM tractor line. Branson/Kukje assumed warranty and parts support for Century tractors.

Montana Tractors was founded with the inventory of AgraCat Tractors, which had filed for bankruptcy. Montana changed the model line, distributing LS Tractors from South Korea. In 2009, LS broke the relationship to sell directly in the US and Montana entered an agreement with Kukje (manufacturer of the Branson brand) to provide tractors. Attempts for a joint venture with Branson failed and Montana stopped selling new tractors in 2011

 

[DavesTractor]

Both of these orphan tractor lines have Branson fingerprints on them. I'm just wondering if something like that might happen to Branson itself now that TYM has purchased its parent company.

From Tractor Data:
Century was a US trade name for compact tractors built by the Kukje Machinery Company of South Korea and distributed by American Jawa from 2000 to 2006. The Century brand disappeared around 2006 when Kukje consolidated its products in North America under the Branson brand and American Jawa moved to the TYM tractor line. Branson/Kukje assumed warranty and parts support for Century tractors.

Montana Tractors was founded with the inventory of AgraCat Tractors, which had filed for bankruptcy. Montana changed the model line, distributing LS Tractors from South Korea. In 2009, LS broke the relationship to sell directly in the US and Montana entered an agreement with Kukje (manufacturer of the Branson brand) to provide tractors. Attempts for a joint venture with Branson failed and Montana stopped selling new tractors in 2011

I don't believe Kukje ever supplied Montana with tractors. I think there was an attempt to remarket some Kukje via Montana but that failed to gain traction.

When a manufacturer that has never been in the USA decides to get into the US market, it is often via an independent distributor. A group of guys/gals or companies gets a big credit line or a pool of cash and they order up a few containers and put their name on the tractors and off they go. The first few years can be tough. Then when success starts it gets tough again, as you end up with a cash flow issue due to success and growth. Some make it, some don't. But if the tractor is good, it will generally pop up again with a different decal on it. I think Branson is past that stage. Just how the TYM/Branson deal plays out is above my pay grade, but Branson is a successful company and it should stay that way.

Branson, as an independent distributor (Mark and Russ) did pretty well, well enough that Kukje bought them out years ago. Then Branson came through the 2008-2010 downturn, adding new models and growing the company. Unlike many tractor companies, they have been profitable for years. Part of that success is measured growth and dealer satisfaction. With the gains they have made, I can't really see TYM doing anything in the USA that would cause Branson to suffer. It's a growing profitable business, and I expect they will want to keep it that way. On the other hand, TYM seems better at building tractors than retailing them. They have come in under several brands over the years, but other than via Mahindra badged TYMs, they have not been terribly successful. Building tractors and retailing them are two different animals.

I think TYM will enjoy having the A-series Cummins in their tractors. That should cut costs. But just how they fit into the market between Branson and Mahindra will be interesting to see. My assumption is that they will brand as TYM with the Cummins style engine and that we will see some cross over models between Branson and TYM. But that is just guessing.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

Dave,

I have several problems with my 2016 Branson 4720Ch.

I purchased it from Big Red's for a project in the Houston area, and I requested manuals for the tractor. As soon as they got the check, and delivered the tractor, they washed their hands of me, and I never got the parts manual they promised.

There is NO DEALER AT ALL in the Houston area, and that has really smashed my productivity.

Did Branson ever give access to the parts manuals back. I have been able to find a good service manual, an Ops manual and even a parts manual dated 2011, but I keep ending up with the wrong parts when I order from that. I believe I need a different parts manual for the "Tier 4" unit. Is that the case. Can anyone even get me a parts manual for my tractor?

Have you seen units with the AC inop? I'm sure you've seen plenty with the shredded fan shrouds.

 

[DavesTractor]

Dave,

I have several problems with my 2016 Branson 4720Ch.

I purchased it from Big Red's for a project in the Houston area, and I requested manuals for the tractor. As soon as they got the check, and delivered the tractor, they washed their hands of me, and I never got the parts manual they promised.

There is NO DEALER AT ALL in the Houston area, and that has really smashed my productivity.

Did Branson ever give access to the parts manuals back. I have been able to find a good service manual, an Ops manual and even a parts manual dated 2011, but I keep ending up with the wrong parts when I order from that. I believe I need a different parts manual for the "Tier 4" unit. Is that the case. Can anyone even get me a parts manual for my tractor?

Have you seen units with the AC inop? I'm sure you've seen plenty with the shredded fan shrouds.

P Fogg,

If you PM me your contact info, I assure you I can get Big Red's to respond to you. Sounds like you have a handful of issues and it would be best for you to be in contact with your selling dealer. As for no dealer in the Houston area, that is something that Branson needs to rectify. That is a good tractor selling area.

No online parts manual access, and I do not know the theory behind why that is not available. I do not know if that was due to a copyright issue, a technical change or if it was some sort of strategy. Nobody has told me. Myself, I like access to parts lookups. As for ordering the wrong parts, instead of ordering by part number, just tell the parts person your model and serial number and they ought to be able to get you the correct part.

We have had very few AC issues actually and it is plenty hot where we are, but there are conditions for which I would warn a potential customer about the AC being marginal. On pretty much any brand of tractor this size, if you are working the tractor in 100 degree plus heat (or high humidity) and running a mower or something that also contributes to heat load and have some chaff in the radiator, the tractor has a hard time getting rid of the heat around the condenser area, and that leads to high head pressure and the AC compressor kicking on and off, which is hard on compressors and won't keep you cool. We had a Mahindra about this size and the guy would mow with an 8' flail in tall grass on 105-110 days, in the afternoons and as soon as a little chaff got in the radiator condenser area the AC would start cycling. And of course the customer relates to his car AC that handles 110 heat just fine, but it isn't running a big mower or driving through a dry field with chaff all over the radiator. Out of scads of these Branson and Mahindra tractors of this size we have sold, we have had just a couple of customers that felt the AC was not adequate. Tinting your windows will help a little in that it then does not require as much cooling.

As far as fan shroud to blade clearance, we have seen that only once, but I understand there are some dealers that have seen more. Not sure why we have been spared the issue. I think they need to loosen the fan blade to shroud tolerance a little. It does not need to be so tight.

I can't take the time to sort out every issue, but I will be glade to advocate a contact for you with Big Red's if you would like me to do so.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

The problem with "just tell the parts person your model and serial number and they ought to be able to get you the correct part." is that finding someone who is reliable and responsible is like finding a unicorn. I have always done my own research, and cannot support a company that makes me "just tell the parts guy." I know what I need, and I care about getting it right. Some functionary at some company that has already dropped the ball on me, is never going to be reliable or trustworthy.

 

[EddieWalker]

View attachment 518261View attachment 518262View attachment 518263View attachment 518264View attachment 518265View attachment 518266

If I have done this correctly, here is some wiring info for the pre Cummins Branson and Century tractors.

Dave, thanks again for posting these pics. I've been trying to make sense of them in tracing my wires, but I keep finding differences. Finally it hit me, the diagram has four four glow plugs, but my Century 2535 only has three cylinders.

 

[EddieWalker]

I never figured it out, but I kept finding bad wires and dirty connections, that I eventually ran out of problems, and it started up last night. Thanks to everyone for your help!!!!

 

[Phileas Fogg]

I finally convinced the original dealer that I wasn't goiong away, in about 48 hours I had a PDF file of the parts manual I needed. Branson has them, they are just being stingy with this BASIC SUPPORT MATERIAL for absolutely no sane reason!

 

[DavesTractor]

I never figured it out, but I kept finding bad wires and dirty connections, that I eventually ran out of problems, and it started up last night. Thanks to everyone for your help!!!!

"I eventually ran out of problems" is a great way to put it. Glad you got it going.

 

[EddieWalker]

I finally convinced the original dealer that I wasn't goiong away, in about 48 hours I had a PDF file of the parts manual I needed. Branson has them, they are just being stingy with this BASIC SUPPORT MATERIAL for absolutely no sane reason!

Good to hear you got them. I never tried contacting my dealer, or Branson to get a manual. I guess I should have, that would have been smart on my part. The dealer I bought mine from switched to Mahindra when other Branson dealerships started popping up at every Farm Store and mom and pop hardware stores in the area. You could see three or four of them in the parking lot all over the place. Then all of a sudden, there where none!!!! Last year a new one opened up South of Tyler, about an hour from me if I fight the traffic to get there. Maybe next time that's where I'll start and see what they have to offer.