Cub Cadet RZT 50 will not ever try to crank, just clicks

Morven39 · Aug 17, 2017

It is a 2010 with a 22hp Kawasaki engine. When I went out to mow the grass, turned the key and it just clicks. I have installed a new battery and battery cables, starter solenoid and the PTO switch which was getting hard to turn On or Off, and the only difference that I have noticed is that now I seem to hear a very low whining sound along with the click when I turn the ignition key to ON try to start it. I am definitely not a mechanic but I tried to be careful and install the new parts the same way as they had been before. I haven't replaced the ingnition switch yet, but just joined the forum today and noticed that someone had stated that might be the problem.

I had checked the forum prior to starting changing out the parts but haven't done voltage checks as suggested since I am almost 80 years old and unable the crawl around under the mower to get to the starter.

Any help would be appreciated.

Morven39

TCJatko · Aug 17, 2017

Have you checked the ground connection where it meets the frame of the vehicle? Maybe some corrosion there? Sounds like a bad connection to me.

Morven39 · Aug 17, 2017

Thanks, I will go outside and check the frame where the new solenoid is attached and see if it is rusty, dirty or whatever.

Morven39 · Aug 17, 2017

I will try to check further tomorrow morning when it isn't so hot here. Temp is over 100 with and heat index of around 110 so it is just about unbearable even in the shade. Also might have to get my grandson to come over and help me check all things mentioned since he is still a young man.

Spanner · Aug 17, 2017

Hi Morv. Welcome to the forum.
The 'whining' sound is indicative of the solenoid trying to pull 'in' but failing due to low voltage.
You say you have a new battery and a new solenoid.

Try Jumper Leads from a car battery in this fashion:

Positive (+) lead from additional battery to Positive (+) on mower battery.

Negative (-) lead from additional battery to "Somewhere bare metal" on the mower engine - Not the battery. Mounting bolt perhaps?

If you get engine cranking when you turn the key you have shown a ground (Earth) fault exists.

Let us know but take your time in the heat.

eth555 · Aug 17, 2017

My park brake switch will stick and if you wiggle the park brake lever around a bit it and it will start. It will not crank if the park brake lever is not engaged. It will also not start if the steering levers are not all the way out, and if there is no one in the seat. Any one of these things will cause it not to crank, might have to start checking safety switches.

BukitCase · Aug 18, 2017

Actually, if ANY of the safety switches on the RZT50 aren't closed it won't even CLICK - I'd spend my time looking at previous suggestions.

Also, IME you can measure VOLTAGE thru "glazed" battery terminals but can't draw enough CURRENT to drive a starter - if the glazing is BAD enough, even a battery post cleaner might not get it - but 100 grit sandpaper will

same thing (low current) if a molded end on a battery cable is totally corroded inside but looks FINE to the eye (learning THAT one only cost me about $100 in un-necessary parts I couldn't afford.) Today's digital meters are so high impedance they will read just fine thru such a crappy connection, but when you actually try to START the vehicle the voltage at the starter will drop to maybe 5% of battery voltage.

Connecting the meter right at the starter terminals will tell you if you have this sort of problem; voltage at the starter will read the same as at the battery, UNTIL you try to start it. THEN it'll drop to a volt or less if there's bad connections between battery and starter.

If the battery itself isn't able to supply current, connecting the meter directly across the battery terminals will tell you - symptoms would be OK voltage at rest, but HUGE voltage drop when trying to crank.

Sorry for the "book", I've been burned by ALL of these conditions (and more) over the past 50+ years, hopefully something I mentioned will save OTHERS from that pain... Steve

Morven39 · Aug 21, 2017

Thanks for the help from all who gave me pointers on what to check to fix my problem. Using those pointers and having the help of my son and grandson, we finally located the problem. It was the starter. The nut that holds the spring, gear, etc inside the starter had become so loose that it fell out of the case when the starter was disassembled. We cleaned all the parts, replaced everything in the starter case after making sure that the nut was tightened securely, hooked it back up and the mower started immediately. I don't even feel bad about the parts that I replaced that might have been ok since the mover is 7 years old. Since I am almost 80 years old, maybe it will now outlast me.

Richard001 · Aug 21, 2017

Morven39,

Great trouble shooting.

Just a note for the future, after re-assembling something, there should not be any parts left over !

Welcome to TBN

Richard

Morven39 · Aug 22, 2017

Richard001 said:
Morven39,

Great trouble shooting.

Just a note for the future, after re-assembling something, there should not be any parts left over !

Welcome to TBN

Richard

No parts over. Cut grass yesterday and everything worked fine. Maybe it will continue to last for a few more years.

Spanner · Aug 22, 2017

Morven39 said:
Thanks ...
... It was the starter. The nut that holds the spring, gear, etc inside the starter had become so loose that it fell out of the case when the starter was disassembled. We cleaned all the parts, replaced everything in the starter case after making sure that the nut was tightened securely, hooked it back up and the mower started immediately. ...

Good to read of your success. I guess none of us, diagnosing from afar, would venture to say "your starter motor has failed - It's likely dismantled itself internally"...
We were close by pointing you to the Starter, in general. So, well done to get it fixed up and back on the grass.:thumbsup:

No matter how many 'volts' you have you're not going to reassemble a box of parts by turning the key!
Stick around anyway.

Regards,

Morven39 · Aug 26, 2017

Well, I cut some more grass today and a PTO problem started again. If I cut grass long enough to turn the PTO switch off to dump the grass from my bagger 3 or more times, when I pull the PTO switch to turn the PTO on, it will not turn on. If I park it and go back much later after everything cools down or the next day and crank the mower to start mowing again, when I pull the PTO switch the PTO starts going like it should. Without just replacing the PTO, how do I check the wiring asap after it quits working to find out if it is getting power or it is one of the hateful safety switches not letting power get to the PTO? I hate to replace the expensive PTO if it is just a safety switch problem or wiring gone bad. Any help appreciated.

BukitCase · Aug 26, 2017

Those symptoms sound similar to a problem that's bitten me in the butt once, then tried to do it in a couple OTHER instances (but I was ready for it :laughing: ) - (of course, it could also just be the overly "cheesy" PTO switch taking a break due to heat)

Solenoid switches (and ignition coils) are wound with REALLY fine magnet wire (bare, single strand wire, insulated by only a varnish coating) - one of the downsides of single strand wire is that there's only one strand to break -

I've had solenoids AND ignition coils do this - either thru vibration, repeated operations or possibly minor stress cracks, the coil winding wire manages to break - but since it's wound tightly inside a coil form, there's no place for the two (now separate) ends to go, so they just SIT there; and as often as not, they are STILL TOUCHING EACH OTHER...

When you first start USING whatever device it is, it's COOL and it's making connection. As things warm up, they EXPAND - now those two halves of the tiny wire can "get away from" each other, and no more current flows. When things cool off, it works again

The (hopefully) GOOD news - there may be a way to troubleshoot this in YOUR time frame with no rushing needed - if you can get at BOTH connections to the PTO, and at least ONE of them has a spade lug connection you can DISCONNECT, you can then connect a DMM across the PTO coil - If you DON'T have at least one of the connections unhooked, the DMM may read OTHER things in the circuit which will confuse the results.

With the mower at rest and the DMM hooked across the PTO coil, you should read a few ohms resistance - with the rear wheels up on ramps (or similar) you should be able to see the PTO - if you then heat up the area around the solenoid with either a high power hair dryer or a heat gun, if there's an intermittent connection as I've described your DMM will (eventually) go to infinity (open, OL, etc)

By testing this way, there's no rush to "find it before it goes away" -

Be careful getting the heat gun too close to the deck belt; they can take some heat, but I wouldn't push it.

I've not had this problem with MY RZT50 (yet) but I HAVE come up with solutions for a couple of OTHER PITA's on this machine involving deck and drive belt replacements so if anyone HATES doing those things I'll be glad to elaborate... Steve

Richard001 · Aug 26, 2017

Have you adjusted the air gap in the PTO clutch?

If not, that could well be the problem.

Richard

Morven39 · Aug 26, 2017

Thanks. I will get with my grandson who is a certified mechanic and get him to check how you mentioned. I am near 80 years old and unable to crawl around under the mower. Hopefully it isn't the PTO.

Morven39

Morven39 · Aug 26, 2017

Thanks Richard. I will get my grandson to check the air gap in the PTO also. Hopefully he will be able to help me with this problem. He is a certified Ford mechanic but should understand what you and BukitCase mentioned that should be checked.

Morven39