HD F-150 or 3/4 ton truck?

[17 Oaks]

The higher the octane the fuel is, the less chemical energy it actually has in it. The advantage of high octane fuel is resistance to predetonation (pinging or knocking) that will quickly destroy an engine. Higher octane fuel makes high performance & higher compression less likely to run into these issues.

Modern cars have a knock sensor in them & will ****** the timing at the cost of power & mileage if they detect pinging/knocking.

So basically run what the manual says & don't waste your money on anything higher octane.

THANKS!
This should be made a sticky on every forum in the US that even mentions cars as sooner or later someone will SWEAR they get better MPG, more HP/Torque, less razor burn more stations on their radio, etc when they use the higher octane fuels.

On the old Jeep Wrangler I 6 engine its a 8.9 compression, which means it will burn almost anything your can pour into the tank, yet some people swore that putting 93 octane in the engine gave it the performance of a V8 and more...useless if you don't have the compression and cam profile to support it.

 

[dodge man]

I have a Challenger with the 5.7 hemi and I have a hand held tuner for it. When you put a tune on it, it generally advances the spark curve sooner in the RPM range. I also had a custom tune done where they tune it on a dyno and in my case, they leaned the mixture out also. All this stuff tends to make it knock more so I run 93 octane.

With the tuner, you can log data to a PC and look at some or all of the engine parameters that the computer on the car sees. Two of the critical items is what is called ST and LT spark knock. The ST means short term knock. That means its pulling ignition timing just at that time, usually a very short period of time. LT knock is Long Term. If this pops up it will store that in the computer and pull timing all the time, not just when the engine gets it from a knock sensor. The LT knock would happen if say you ran low octane fuel in a car that needed premimum. This wouldn't hurt the engine but would hurt performace and fuel mileage. In the case of my Challenger, this is stored on the computer until its reset, which never really happens except at the dealer or a battery that goes dead for a long period of time, or if you have a tuner.

So if the car says to run a higher octane, its a good idea but not the end of the world if you don't.

 

[dieselscout80]

I have used both 87 oct & 89 oct.I see no difference is hand cal.mileage & truck runs the same on both grades of fuel.

So Dodge does NOT require high grade gas.

Thanks

 

[coobie]

So Dodge does NOT require high grade gas.

Thanks

I believe my owners manual suggests 89 oct.but after reading some ram forums on 87 oct. verses 89 oct. plus using 87 oct.I feel it runs just as well.I see NO difference in performance or MPG,s.

 

[Sysop]

It's not 1987! I remember guys saying no way a 1 ton could pull 16,000# but today they are safely doing twice that. Only reasonable to think a half tons limits would double also.

I have better than 200,000 miles with 1/2 tons pulling 9,500 to 10,400# on 2012 and older vintage 1/2 tons and never once felt it was unsafe.

Agreed. Trucks all the way up and down the spectrum are hauling more than ever. Properly engineered equipment, loads with their weight properly distributed, and a driver that drives like there is a load onboard are the keys to safety.

That new higher 13k tow rating didn't just come with the additional power, they thickened the frame members and other stuff as well. It is as well engineered for handling its rated load as well as any other truck; large or small.

The biggest difference between 5000lbs F150 taking 13000lbs down the road and an 18000lbs Volvo VN870 taking 60000lbs down the road is mainly the skill in loading and driving. Both are adequately engineered to handle their respective loads.

 

[4570Man]

The biggest difference between 5000lbs F150 taking 13000lbs down the road and an 18000lbs Volvo VN870 taking 60000lbs down the road is mainly the skill in loading and driving. Both are adequately engineered to handle their respective loads.

There's a whole lot more idiots with 1/2 tons than a semi. Locally there's been at least 2 idiots wreak a 1/2 ton hauling too big of a load in a fairy short period. One was hauling a rental JD110 backhoe. The other had a rental skid steer of unknown size.

 

[Sysop]

Unfortunate as that is, it isn't any sort of limitation of the truck. You can put the same idiots loading and driving semis and end up in just as bad of a situation or worse. As I said, the main difference is the level of experience loading and driving. If you are unskilled at loading or driving, you are a hazard no matter what you drive. The engineering and ratings of the trucks are not unsafe.

 

[scott_vt]

Good Afternoon GladeHound,

I am a first time Ford owner and couldnt be happier with it ! Bought a 2017 F-150 in February, and it has been a great truck for me.
I have the XLT model with the 5.0 V-8, I have about 5600 miles on the truck and routinely get 23 to 25 mpg on a trip. The on board
computer seems very accurate on the mpg because when I fill the tank the mileage computes very close to what the computer says !

The only thing I have towed is my 22 ft pontoon boat with outbboard, which really doesnt weigh that much, but you would never know that it was back there until
you look in the mirror. I have the Super Cab for extra space and the 6.5 ft bed.

I previously had a 2000 Dodge Ram with the 5.9 L, great truck but horrible on fuel ! Before that it was a 3/4 ton 1982 Chevy, that was a real work truck but horrible
on gas also !

This didnt answer your question really but I thought I would add my 2 cents ! :laughing:

 

[gladehound]

Good Afternoon GladeHound,

I am a first time Ford owner and couldnt be happier with it ! Bought a 2017 F-150 in February, and it has been a great truck for me.
I have the XLT model with the 5.0 V-8, I have about 5600 miles on the truck and routinely get 23 to 25 mpg on a trip. The on board
computer seems very accurate on the mpg because when I fill the tank the mileage computes very close to what the computer says !

The only thing I have towed is my 22 ft pontoon boat with outbboard, which really doesnt weigh that much, but you would never know that it was back there until
you look in the mirror. I have the Super Cab for extra space and the 6.5 ft bed.

I previously had a 2000 Dodge Ram with the 5.9 L, great truck but horrible on fuel ! Before that it was a 3/4 ton 1982 Chevy, that was a real work truck but horrible
on gas also !

This didnt answer your question really but I thought I would add my 2 cents ! :laughing:

Modern gas engines are worlds beyond those of 15-20 years ago for both power and efficiency. 20 years ago when I got my F250 diesel in 1999 it was a no brainer! Diesels were simple, strong and efficient. Gas engines were weak and inefficient. Fast forward to now and Diesels are complex, strong and not quite as efficient as they once were. Gas engines are strong and have made up ground in the efficiency game.

What is even stranger about today's situation is that it seams the best gas engines can only be had in 1/2 ton trucks. Chevy's hottest V8 only can be had in a half ton. Ford's 3.5 EB has a better torque curve for towing than the 6.2 but can only be had in a 1/2 ton.

Now subtract off the weight difference of a half ton compared to an HD and that power difference seems even better than it actually is. Now throw in 10 speed transmissions compared to 6 speed in the HD's and the 1/2 ton powertrain get's sweeter still. Surely the towing experience with a 1/2 ton gas will be better from a drive train perspective than a 3/4 ton gas that has less torque to move more weight and fewer gears to select from.

Now consider that a modern properly equipped F150 has the same tow rating at 13,000 pounds as my 1999 Ford F250 PSD had (and 500 pounds more than a 2017 F250 gas with 3.73 rear). Yes, it's lighter and the components are smaller but some components also have better materials. An F150 frame is 70,000 psi compared to 50,000 psi for most HDs. The HD's obviously had a lot more metal there and the frames on the HD are indeed stronger, but probably not as much stronger as appearance alone would suggest.

So what's the point I'm getting to... It seems we are at a moment in time when manufacturers are building two options for the same job. And for those in the gas truck market, they need to choose between better drivetrains vs a heavier chassis with much better axles. I hate that we are forced to make that choice. Give me an Ecoboost 5.0L F250 as a gas option and this decision would be a lot easier!

 

[WilliamBos]

13k lbs behind a 1/2 ton truck. I don't want to be anywhere near that going down the highway.

Why not? The new 150/1500 are built heavier and stronger than 250/2500 up until 2000.