New to me tractor...adding a grapple.

[rj0530]

Hello Everyone. My name is Rob Johnson and I am in the process of purchasing my first tractor. Given that I needed everything and my hatred for big long payments, I am purchasing a 04 Branson 4020 with a BL20 FEL and not sure on the backhoe but looks to be a good sized one. Comes with a quality 18' dove tail trailer, bush hog, box blade and some kind of rake..the only issue is that I need to add a grapple to be able to do what I need to do with it, which is primarily tree/brush type stuff. A couple questions.

Would I be better off going with a true grapple/rake or do the ones that attach to the bucket do well with limbs and good sized trees?

What is the most cost efficient way to add the needed hydraulics to run the grapple? I'm paying cash for the package I'm buying and need to do this the right way but also mind my pennies.. is this something that a person with decent abilities and no hydro knowledge attempt this or should I try to find someone near me to install for me? Would I be able to get a factory set up for this age tractor? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

 

[John_Mc]

When I added a grapple to my tractor, I already had rear hydraulic remotes, so the cheapest way to run hydraulics for the grapple was to just run hoses from the rear of the tractor up to the grapple. Quick disconnects on the rear end of the hoses let me disconnect them when I need the rear remotes for something else. If you don't already have rear hydraulic remotes, or don't anticipate needing them for something else, there are probably less expensive ways of hooking this up. (I use a hydraulic top-n-tilt when I'm running my box blade, among other things).

 

[ericm979]

I bought a 3725 earlier this year and want to put a grapple on it now. My dealer sent me pics of a diverter kit when I asked but I'm not sure if it's factory or not.

The bucket grapple looks like it has less capacity for long pieces due to the bucket sides.

Some of the cheap grapples don't have bushings or grease fittings. Just bolts. That's not going to last long. Some of them are heavy (which eats into the loader's capacity) and made from mild steel.

You can buy generic hydraulic kits where you make your own mounts and add the hoses or assemble your own. There's a ton of threads here from people who have done that. I'm probably going to do my own. The hydraulics are pretty simple. A diverter is simpler and maybe a bit cheaper than a true third function. It's just a valve in the curl circuit- in default position flow goes to the curl cylinders, when activated it goes to the grapple instead. A third function is a valve that is in line with the other valves in the hydraulic circuit (loader -> rear remotes -> third function -> 3pt). You can operate it and the curl at the same time though they will share the flow.

If your tractor has a rear remote you can run hoses from it up to the grapple. Not as ergonomic as buttons on the loader knob but cheaper.

 

[leonz]

Nope, nope. nope. keep your money buried in the can out back.

First things first, is the back hoe mounted on the three point hitch????? If it is, its not a good idea period.

The other thing is the loader, arms and bucket they are designed for light materials only and do not
expect to be able lift very heavy materials like large diameter stumpage that was felled, NO you will tear it up.
the last thing you want to live with is a twisted set of loader arms and then the loader is pretty much done for.


You can always buy what you need from the Branson dealer if they are still in business to get the proper set up as you
are either going to a need a quick attach plate for a separate grapple or the bucket grapple and still need
hydraulics to run the grapple.

I would shop around for a smaller mule and package as you would have a warranty and you could invest in an
extended warranty and insurance and have zero percent financing which is not zero percent financing anyway.


I would also look at the smallest tracked skid steers with high flow hydraulics as you can mount a back hoe, mower, landscape rake
and other attachments as you go along.

 

[nybirdman]

I wanted a grapple of some sorts but couldn't justify a full grapple.I added a Green's Machine Thumb and a tooth bar to my bucket.That combo works very well for me;the only down side is that it doesn't open as wide as a full grapple.
Great for brush piles or logs/firewood.

 

[rj0530]

I wanted a grapple of some sorts but couldn't justify a full grapple.I added a Green's Machine Thumb and a tooth bar to my bucket.That combo works very well for me;the only down side is that it doesn't open as wide as a full grapple.
Great for brush piles or logs/firewood.

This looks like the set up I will need. I'm afraid I will need to do a QA as well. leonz-the back hoe is not on the 3pt. has a frame that runs all the way under the tractor. What are you speaking of when talking about not adding some type of grapple? I appreciate the help...I do have a rear remote, so..just need to educate myself as to the best way to go about this. Wifes gonna be so dang happy when I tell her I need to spend about 2 more K.

 

[Redlands Okie]

Bucket grapple beats the heck out of no grapple. With that said a regular grapple will haul more volume and weight and haul longer material. Just got to decide on which option fits your situation.

This is kind of a around about way of looking at things. So make believe some price numbers. So with that said if you spend $900 dollars on a bucket grapple and you do not like it or it does not fulfill your needs you wasted $900. If you spend $1500 dollars on a normal grapple and you could have made due with a cheaper version you perhaps wasted $600 since you could have made do with the $900 dollar unit.

If you do not have the extra money to potentially waste then you really have to do some thinking on which of the options your willing to live with if your not happy with the result. Good grapple and wasted money that is spent and gone or make do grapple choice and your reminded of your poor decision every single time you use it................

 

[rj0530]

Bucket grapple beats the heck out of no grapple. With that said a regular grapple will haul more volume and weight and haul longer material. Just got to decide on which option fits your situation.

This is kind of a around about way of looking at things. So make believe some price numbers. So with that said if you spend $900 dollars on a bucket grapple and you do not like it or it does not fulfill your needs you wasted $900. If you spend $1500 dollars on a normal grapple and you could have made due with a cheaper version you perhaps wasted $600 since you could have made do with the $900 dollar unit.

If you do not have the extra money to potentially waste then you really have to do some thinking on which of the options your willing to live with if your not happy with the result. Good grapple and wasted money that is spent and gone or make do grapple choice and your reminded of your poor decision every single time you use it................

Well said...I've read several threads on adding attachments as well as the grapple fun thread. It is apparent that the full grapples can do more but from what i'm seeing, they run about 2k, then another k or so to plumb it...dang man.

 

[Redlands Okie]

P.s. you can make do with a pair of hoses from your local ag store running from your rear remotes to the front and add in a front remote at a later date

 

[rj0530]

P.s. you can make do with a pair of hoses from your local ag store running from your rear remotes to the front and add in a front remote at a later date

This will prove my ignorance but...what opens and closes the grapple when running this way? Would there be a lever for this remote? I liked the thumb on nybirdmans post...cost about $400 or so..would be great if I could get by for a bit on $500...then upgrade later when the checking act recovers.

 

[motownbrowne]

This will prove my ignorance but...what opens and closes the grapple when running this way? Would there be a lever for this remote? I liked the thumb on nybirdmans post...cost about $400 or so..would be great if I could get by for a bit on $500...then upgrade later when the checking act recovers.

Yep, a lever that controls the remote. A switch on the loader joystick would be preferable most of the time, whether it is a diverter or a true third function.

 

[TX Chris]

Bucket grapple beats the heck out of no grapple. With that said a regular grapple will haul more volume and weight and haul longer material. Just got to decide on which option fits your situation.

This is kind of a around about way of looking at things. So make believe some price numbers. So with that said if you spend $900 dollars on a bucket grapple and you do not like it or it does not fulfill your needs you wasted $900. If you spend $1500 dollars on a normal grapple and you could have made due with a cheaper version you perhaps wasted $600 since you could have made do with the $900 dollar unit.

If you do not have the extra money to potentially waste then you really have to do some thinking on which of the options your willing to live with if your not happy with the result. Good grapple and wasted money that is spent and gone or make do grapple choice and your reminded of your poor decision every single time you use it................

Keep in mind that he could sell the grapple on a forum or craigslist and recoup a decent chunk of the investment should it not work out.

Rob - do a search for diverter valves. They're discussed a lot on here as an alternate to a third function. Plenty of people prefer the diverter to a true third function and it seems to be a much smaller $$ investment.

I'm also in the market for a grapple and will need a third function. My Kubota dealer quoted me $995 installed for the Kubota third function kit. The WR Long third function is $8XX for the kit and then I'd have to install it so I'll probably end up going the Kubota route for a professional install. I'm eyeing the Everything Attachments grapples.

 

[Stomper]

I bought a 3725 earlier this year and want to put a grapple on it now. My dealer sent me pics of a diverter kit when I asked but I'm not sure if it's factory or not.

The bucket grapple looks like it has less capacity for long pieces due to the bucket sides.

Some of the cheap grapples don't have bushings or grease fittings. Just bolts. That's not going to last long. Some of them are heavy (which eats into the loader's capacity) and made from mild steel.

You can buy generic hydraulic kits where you make your own mounts and add the hoses or assemble your own. There's a ton of threads here from people who have done that. I'm probably going to do my own. The hydraulics are pretty simple. A diverter is simpler and maybe a bit cheaper than a true third function. It's just a valve in the curl circuit- in default position flow goes to the curl cylinders, when activated it goes to the grapple instead. A third function is a valve that is in line with the other valves in the hydraulic circuit (loader -> rear remotes -> third function -> 3pt). You can operate it and the curl at the same time though they will share the flow.

If your tractor has a rear remote you can run hoses from it up to the grapple. Not as ergonomic as buttons on the loader knob but cheaper.

I want a grapple in the worst way but wasn't going the pay the $1000 the dealers wanted for a third function so I sourced out my own stuff, hoses, quick couplers, electric/hydraulic valve, and switch and 1/2" shaft collar to mount the switch to so I could attach it to the loader valve handle. I made my own brackets. All together I have just over $300 into it, and that is canadian prices. It's real easy to do

 

[nybirdman]

Factory third function was about $800 when I had it done;Green's Machine Thumb was $400 and I did that install along with the tooth-bar(maybe $150).
I have picked 20'long by 20" diameter hard wood logs with ease;primary use has been for gathering brush and it works like a charm(wish I had taken pictures).I can pick up a 1" thick flat rock with no problem.

 

[rj0530]

I want a grapple in the worst way but wasn't going the pay the $1000 the dealers wanted for a third function so I sourced out my own stuff, hoses, quick couplers, electric/hydraulic valve, and switch and 1/2" shaft collar to mount the switch to so I could attach it to the loader valve handle. I made my own brackets. All together I have just over $300 into it, and that is canadian prices. It's real easy to do

That's pretty good numbers there. Is that doing the diverter or the true third function? I need to get off into the thread of the guys who've done it. I appreciate all the good advice. Love forums, u get to hear from the folks doing it the most.

 

[rj0530]

Factory third function was about $800 when I had it done;Green's Machine Thumb was $400 and I did that install along with the tooth-bar(maybe $150).
I have picked 20'long by 20" diameter hard wood logs with ease;primary use has been for gathering brush and it works like a charm(wish I had taken pictures).I can pick up a 1" thick flat rock with no problem.

I like your setup and $1400 aint bad, if I could get it all for that. Alternative- I believe (assuming 8 to 900 to get her plumbed, maybe 3-400 if I do it myself) I would be most likely around 2k for the beast grapple that for sure has more capability..so 2.5-3 k...bout what I figured. Maybe bucket grapple for now and wait on a craigslist list grapple that's sure to come as soon as the Irma debris is done for. maybe one will hit CL by the time shes ready..aslo got to consider the attachment QA. I know this thing has handles like a quick disconnect but I think I read where the loader might not be compatible> If anyone has anymore info on the Branson BL20 FEL attachment head, I sure would appreciate it.

 

[ovrszd]

Nope, nope. nope. keep your money buried in the can out back.

First things first, is the back hoe mounted on the three point hitch????? If it is, its not a good idea period.

The other thing is the loader, arms and bucket they are designed for light materials only and do not
expect to be able lift very heavy materials like large diameter stumpage that was felled, NO you will tear it up.
the last thing you want to live with is a twisted set of loader arms and then the loader is pretty much done for.


You can always buy what you need from the Branson dealer if they are still in business to get the proper set up as you
are either going to a need a quick attach plate for a separate grapple or the bucket grapple and still need
hydraulics to run the grapple.

I would shop around for a smaller mule and package as you would have a warranty and you could invest in an
extended warranty and insurance and have zero percent financing which is not zero percent financing anyway.


I would also look at the smallest tracked skid steers with high flow hydraulics as you can mount a back hoe, mower, landscape rake
and other attachments as you go along.

What do you base any of this from?? Where do you get these ideas?? You really think he needs to go buy a new tractor to get warranty?? Amazing......

 

[ovrszd]

I like your setup and $1400 aint bad, if I could get it all for that. Alternative- I believe (assuming 8 to 900 to get her plumbed, maybe 3-400 if I do it myself) I would be most likely around 2k for the beast grapple that for sure has more capability..so 2.5-3 k...bout what I figured. Maybe bucket grapple for now and wait on a craigslist list grapple that's sure to come as soon as the Irma debris is done for. maybe one will hit CL by the time shes ready..aslo got to consider the attachment QA. I know this thing has handles like a quick disconnect but I think I read where the loader might not be compatible> If anyone has anymore info on the Branson BL20 FEL attachment head, I sure would appreciate it.

I'm not familiar with parts availability for your tractor brand. With that said, you might be better served with a Diverter Valve. That's an aftermarket item. You can also buy an aftermarket joystick handle with the diverter switches built in.

Not being condescending, just making sure you understand what a Diverter Valve does..... Usually comes with a push button on the joystick handle. Works on the bucket curl circuit. Don't push the button and rock the joystick side to side rolls the bucket. Push and hold the button and rock the joystick side to side opens/closed the Grapple or whatever tool you have attached.

Very easy to "plumb" Gives very reliable service. Very cost effective. Only down side is you can't curl the bucket and squeeze at the same time. Many, many operators here on TBN use this system and love it. They learn to thumb the button quickly while doing curl functions and can smoothly curl and squeeze an object.

Keep us posted on your decision. We love watching tractor owners add attachments (spend money).

 

[rj0530]

I'm not familiar with parts availability for your tractor brand. With that said, you might be better served with a Diverter Valve. That's an aftermarket item. You can also buy an aftermarket joystick handle with the diverter switches built in.

Not being condescending, just making sure you understand what a Diverter Valve does..... Usually comes with a push button on the joystick handle. Works on the bucket curl circuit. Don't push the button and rock the joystick side to side rolls the bucket. Push and hold the button and rock the joystick side to side opens/closed the Grapple or whatever tool you have attached.

Very easy to "plumb" Gives very reliable service. Very cost effective. Only down side is you can't curl the bucket and squeeze at the same time. Many, many operators here on TBN use this system and love it. They learn to thumb the button quickly while doing curl functions and can smoothly curl and squeeze an object.

Keep us posted on your decision. We love watching tractor owners add attachments (spend money).

Thanks and will do. Appreciate the .02

 

[N2DFire]

That's pretty good numbers there. Is that doing the diverter or the true third function? I need to get off into the thread of the guys who've done it. I appreciate all the good advice. Love forums, u get to hear from the folks doing it the most.

Not if some of those guys come to you first.

To recap & pull together some of what you've already been told:
Cheapest & quickest route is to buy a pair of long hoses & a few couplers and run lines from your existing rear remotes (assuming you have those)

Next method is a Diverter setup. Single button control an electric solenoid operated "selector" valve that takes the fluid flow from your control valve (typically the curl/dump circuit but some have used the raise/lower & like it) and routes it to either the existing function or to the grapple open/close

Most expensive is the "3rd function" route where a dual acting switch (or a pair of switches) operated a solenoid controlled valve that takes fluid flow from the "power beyond" on your loader valve and directs it into either the open or close side of the grapple.

The "catch" (that I and others have talked about at length) is that most tractors typically don't have the hydraulic flow capabilities of actually running this as a true 3rd function - meaning you can't Lift/Lower, Curl/Dump, AND Open/Close all at the same time.

Here is a link to a thread I started when I built my own 3rd function set-up. Somewhere along the way PhotoBucket killed off my picture sharing so I created a revised write-up with pictures that I published as a PDF document - it's linked on the last page of this thread.
www.tractorbynet.com/forums/customization/358086-kioti-ck-35-3rd-function.html

I make no claims that my write-up is the end all, be all of 3rd function design but it's (hopefully) not a bad read to get you started.

If you decide to build your own system, diverter or 3rd function, there are lots of knowledgeable folks here that can answer your questions and help you along.

Best of luck & congrats on the new (to you) tractor.