Carry permit. Would traffic stop make police be more cautious? yea or nay?

[/pine]

IMO...There is definitely a dichotomy of attitude between sworn law enforcement officers and civilians, to anyone that has been around them it's obvious...
As a group they tend to expose a self righteous persona...and any civilian is seen as a potential criminal...

How many cops have you ever seen in traffic court paying a speeding ticket etc.?

 

[Sigarms]

How many cops have you ever seen in traffic court paying a speeding ticket etc.?

I still remember this when it happened...

Reckless NJ Police Convoy Escapes VA Justice

And out of curiosity, for the first time, decided to look at the NJ cop in question, wonder of wonders, looked what came up...

Ex-Employee of Passaic Sheriff Will Go to Prison - The New York Times

 

[Sigarms]

I learned long, long ago that you will NEVER change some individuals' minds about any authority figure, especially police officers. My maternal grandfather, after whom I was named, wanted nothing more to do with me when I became an officer. He thought all police officers were crooks and I'm sure there was no way his mind could be changed. I just said I was going to join the police department and find out what kind of people they were.

Well, as most people know, but seem to forget sometimes, the only place we have from which to hire police officers is the human race, and they ain't all perfect. And there are certainly a lot of the wrong kind of people who want to be officers. I was my department's first recruiting officer as a patrolman and some years later I was commander of the personnel division and had the final say as to whom we hired and whom we rejected. I can remember a time when only 3% (yep, 3 out of 100) applicants were accepted. You probably wouldn't believe the reasons some of the applicants wanted to be officers.

However . . . ., we still got some bad ones at times, and we always will. When I started, I was in a recruit class of 29. One was later fired for a petty theft and one was sent to prison for burglary. I can think of a couple of others (not in that recruit class) who were sent to the state prison during my tenure. And I, personally, got resignations from a couple of bad officers, and did the necessary paperwork to fire some.

AND . . . . I can tell you for sure that some of the finest, most honest, individuals I've known were police officers, and as you would expect, some of the sorriest individuals I've known were police officers. IN MY OPINION, it pretty much boils down to the departments' management; the chief, assistant chiefs, captains, etc. If they insist on their officers following the rules, you'll have a good department, but if they were not good honest officers themselves; just good politicians, you'll have problems.

I agree with you 100%.

Do I believe all cops are bad? Heck no.

My only point is when you're pulled over, you have no clue what you're going to get (both as a civilian pulled over AND as the cop pulling someone over). Treat each other with respect. Ultimately, the cop that has you pulled over has authority over you even if you don't agree with him. My only point, is know your rights as a civilain pulled over.

 

[TemporaryKubotaOwnerMark]

That's all good . But I don't remember seeing a permit being requirement in the 2nd amendment. The last words in the 2nd read''shall not be infringed'' We here say a permit is an infringement .

If we were talking about the First Amendment, nobody would have any problem understanding that it is not okay for the government to require permits for the exercise of the right of free speech.

Somehow, when it comes to another right explicitly recognized (not "granted") by our Constitution, suddenly it becomes perfectly reasonable to require permits, deny permits, and enact all manner of restrictions (around 20,000 of them) to restrict and control the free exercise thereof.

Odd how that works.

 

[TemporaryKubotaOwnerMark]

IMO...There is definitely a dichotomy of attitude between sworn law enforcement officers and civilians,

Sworn law enforcement officers are civilians. They do not report to the Commander in Chief. They are not subject to the UCMJ. They are part of and subject to, the civil authority, not the military.

The increasing militarization of our civilian law enforcement agencies is a serious threat to liberty, and this misuse of the term, "civilian" as if police officers are somehow not civilians is a very dangerous error.

 

[/pine]

Sworn law enforcement officers are civilians. They do not report to the Commander in Chief. They are not subject to the UCMJ. They are part of and subject to, the civil authority, not the military.

The increasing militarization of our civilian law enforcement agencies is a serious threat to liberty, and this misuse of the term, "civilian" as if police officers are somehow not civilians is a very dangerous error.

Civilian | Define Civilian at Dictionary.com

 

[ovrszd]

Unsubscribing from thread

Probably just as well.

 

[ovrszd]

Obviously your idea of "good" & "bad" is different then mine.
We also disagree on the % of officers that cross the line.

Now.. I will admit that *most* officers follow the law ( or at least try to) *most* of the time.
If body cams were on all the time & compared to written reports, I believe your version would be hard to defend.

I personally have witnessed average everyday officers lying under oath in court.

What percent of average everyday citizens are dishonest with LEOs?

 

[coffeeman]

Keep in mind, there is a difference being anti authority and not trusting all authority.

History has shown, even in our own country, that power can corrupt.

I CONCUR

Cheers

 

[ovrszd]

I learned long, long ago that you will NEVER change some individuals' minds about any authority figure, especially police officers. My maternal grandfather, after whom I was named, wanted nothing more to do with me when I became an officer. He thought all police officers were crooks and I'm sure there was no way his mind could be changed. I just said I was going to join the police department and find out what kind of people they were.

Well, as most people know, but seem to forget sometimes, the only place we have from which to hire police officers is the human race, and they ain't all perfect. And there are certainly a lot of the wrong kind of people who want to be officers. I was my department's first recruiting officer as a patrolman and some years later I was commander of the personnel division and had the final say as to whom we hired and whom we rejected. I can remember a time when only 3% (yep, 3 out of 100) applicants were accepted. You probably wouldn't believe the reasons some of the applicants wanted to be officers.

However . . . ., we still got some bad ones at times, and we always will. When I started, I was in a recruit class of 29. One was later fired for a petty theft and one was sent to prison for burglary. I can think of a couple of others (not in that recruit class) who were sent to the state prison during my tenure. And I, personally, got resignations from a couple of bad officers, and did the necessary paperwork to fire some.

AND . . . . I can tell you for sure that some of the finest, most honest, individuals I've known were police officers, and as you would expect, some of the sorriest individuals I've known were police officers. IN MY OPINION, it pretty much boils down to the departments' management; the chief, assistant chiefs, captains, etc. If they insist on their officers following the rules, you'll have a good department, but if they were not good honest officers themselves; just good politicians, you'll have problems.

Well stated. Been my point all along. Generally, those complaining most about LEOs are Law Violators. Go figure. Thank you for your service!!!!