Dirt Moving An understanding on the age old debate of geared/hydro

[buickanddeere]

TractorData.com Kubota M54 tractor information


TractorData.com Kubota M68 tractor information

 

[arrow]

While I have owned more gear drive tractors than Hydros, for the work that I do, where I am located, I will never own another gear tractor. The Hydro is just to precise and too convenient to use.

Arrow, I wish you could operate my Kioti hydro unit for a little while. I think you would really like it.

More than likely James. I wish I had your tractor while in Kentucky. The difference for me now is that I can understand how people have gravitated toward hst and that was something I could not fathom as my "gear experience" has been just too easy. The M6800 was much easier to operate as shifting was smoother but you are having to stay in the gear selected to save time. It just gets dumb when you're 30' from the pile and you want to get there in a hurry but you have to find another gear range to load the bucket up. Finding the right travel speed while producing sufficient push into the pile was the trick and at times, there wasn't any right speed. Maybe I'm too impatient but I'm thinking an hst in this case would have made this all a lot simpler.

Oh and btw, if anyone is looking for a 4 ton mini-ex, the guy who is selling the farm to my bil has a 2006 Vermeer with only 200 hrs on it. He wants 17K. I tried to buy it but the wife thinks in unnecessary.
I guess Vermeer might be out of the mini-ex department. There is next to nothing on the machine on the web other than some specs. Even so, everything works on it and it has a thumb. 200 hrs is nothing on a machine like this.

 

[LD1]

Always had gears, this MX 5100 that I got a year and a half ago is my first HST.

Simple 3-range. None of the other bells and whistles like stall guard, auto-throttle, etc.

I brushhog about 250-300 acres. Year commercially. HST vs gear is like comparing a conventional rider today a zero turn.

The ability to slow down in rough areas or thick areas that would normally bog the engine.....and the ability to speed up in the smooth or easy cutting areas rather than shifting constantly...has been priceless.

The gearing in my old L3400 I was constantly bouncing between 4L (3.5 mph) 1H (4.1 mph) and 2h (5.3 mph).

No more of that.

Grading, loader work, grapple and fork work....the HST wins hands down.

The fee times I wish I had a gear though...

Pulling the 3-14 plow, and pulling the 11' or so JD210 disc. Low range tops out at 3.7 mph. And has no trouble pulling either. But that's screaming at WOT. Medium range is a big jump to 7.3mph. tryin to run the disc or plow at 4 or 5 mph in medium range.....tractor didn't like it. Pulled the RPMs down to where I was going no faster than in low range. I have no doubt that a geared tractor with a 4 or 5 mph gear and this would have been no problem.

The only other time a gear would be nicer is in road gear climbing hills. Especially if pulling a trailer of wood

 

[k0ua]

Always had gears, this MX 5100 that I got a year and a half ago is my first HST.

Simple 3-range. None of the other bells and whistles like stall guard, auto-throttle, etc.

I brushhog about 250-300 acres. Year commercially. HST vs gear is like comparing a conventional rider today a zero turn.

The ability to slow down in rough areas or thick areas that would normally bog the engine.....and the ability to speed up in the smooth or easy cutting areas rather than shifting constantly...has been priceless.

The gearing in my old L3400 I was constantly bouncing between 4L (3.5 mph) 1H (4.1 mph) and 2h (5.3 mph).

No more of that.

Grading, loader work, grapple and fork work....the HST wins hands down.

The fee times I wish I had a gear though...

Pulling the 3-14 plow, and pulling the 11' or so JD210 disc. Low range tops out at 3.7 mph. And has no trouble pulling either. But that's screaming at WOT. Medium range is a big jump to 7.3mph. tryin to run the disc or plow at 4 or 5 mph in medium range.....tractor didn't like it. Pulled the RPMs down to where I was going no faster than in low range. I have no doubt that a geared tractor with a 4 or 5 mph gear and this would have been no problem.

The only other time a gear would be nicer is in road gear climbing hills. Especially if pulling a trailer of wood

Yeah, there ain't no end all do all. For some things, as mentioned the Hydro wins hands down, for some other things, the gear wins. For what I do the hydro wins hands down for me. I have used both here and will never go back to gear. All loader work, grapple work, pallet work and most mowing as you said is hydro territory. Plowing is definately gear territory. Not that a hydro won't work, but it is not ideal.

Now all that said, we need to start the REAL discussion.... single pedal or twin pedal...

 

[LD1]

Hydro wins out for me too. Since mowing is a solid 60% of my work. Loader and grapple work another 20%. So that only leaves 20% for everything else including plowing and discing.

Never used a twin pedal, but don't have any complaints about my treadle

 

[Deere Dude]

Now all that said, we need to start the REAL discussion.... single pedal or twin pedal...

I have to confess, as a die hard JD guy who is softening I stopped at a Kubota dealer in my old home town and was going to take a mid sized Kubota for a spin.

I wandered around the lot for 10 minutes and nobody showed up so I jumped up on a couple different models to check out the ergonomics. After pushing on the treadle a few times and imagining how much of a contortionist a guy would have to be to operate it when the salesman came out I said, "Just looking." Jumped in my car and took off. For the life of me I can't see how those contraptions work easily.

Give me the plant your heel and move your toes sideways to hit the reverse pedal anytime. Knowing this is a Kubota forum I might get flamed, but maybe somebody should enlighten me as to why it is easy.

 

[DieselBound]

Deere Dude, I also decided against that above-deck, front-rear rocker pedal arrangement on the Kubota (looking at 2016 models). I've got a Kubota B7800 and it's reverse pedal is back a ways (same with my Polaris Brutus- HST) and I don't get tripped up on it: it's this point that bugged me the most with the others- I'd get my feet all caught up in that arrangement. My Kioti has the side-by-side, and while it works well I still don't like the fact that from time to time I'll jam down on the WRONG pedal! I've been lucky that it hasn't resulted in any tragedy, but I don't know how long this can hold up. The slight lag in movement, I suppose, allows one to recognize the mistake in time to command one's motor nerves to correct: B7800 is operated via linkage and hitting one of the pedals is instantaneous (one can get whiplash!).

The subject of this thread is about moving dirt. I would totally agree that digging through dirt, as in plowing and such, is the domain of a geared tractor. But, "moving" dirt can be loader work, and here HSTs work well. I've drug around a dump trailer quite a bit with my Kioti and it's managed it quite well: and done so in some tight spots.

Curious, do geared tractors utilize dry clutches, ones right behind the end of the engine's crank? I have no exposure here (with cars and such I do), so just curious.

I'm older. I have a small amount of property (only 40 acres). HSTs work great for me; and, in a pinch, my wife can operate them too (she uses the Polaris quite a bit- one of the reasons I decided upon it). Our cars, however, are all geared- they operate on open roads (little need to shift). I don't like hydraulic fluid. I also don't like gear oil. (yeah, yeah, little difference) :laughing:

 

[plowhog]

Some past medical treatments aged and weakened my back and knee joints significantly. So pushing on a clutch pedal was something I did NOT want to do. I found the Kubota treadle with forward / rear motion to be uncomfortable-- and I could more easily operate typical dual pedal hydro pedals. Moving my foot from the "left pedal" to the "right pedal" when they are close together didn't bother me. On the Kubota treadle, I had to lift and retract my foot, then apply some backward force to go in reverse. Maybe it was the size of the treadle but it seemed I had to move my foot back and forth a much greater distance on the Kubota than on the other type of hydro.

Hydro is mentioned generically here but there are different variants of hydro. On my Massey GC1710 SCUT, the power/speed is set with the throttle lever, then you push the hydro pedal down and away you go at that rate, speed, and power setting. With a cruise control option of course. On my Massey 1758, its a little slicker. Your throttle can be at idle, but as you push on the hydro pedal then push harder on the hydro pedal, you go faster all the way up to full speed. With a cruise control option of course.

 

[mike69440]

Again it boils down to use and preference.

Although a bit not so refined in some respects, the Mitsubishi built Mahindras have the Gear shuttles figured out well. I enjoy being able to putter around and road in high gear and low RPM.

Close in loader work and hitching up implements the HST wins, but overall I like Shuttle or Power shuttle gears.

There is a big difference in easy of use with these vs. the old crash box gear units.
The HST Plus and the Yanmar setup are very nice however.
I want to hear more discuss on CVT transmissions??

 

[DieselBound]

I never thought that I'd use "cruise control" on a tractor, but my NK5510 has it and, I've used it quite a bit. I was running up and down my road moving [LOTS of] material ("dirt") and, once I figured it out (hey, I'm a guy, I don't need to consult any stupid manual!) I had that sucker set. Tractor also has the speed control via pedal, but I've found that tends to run the RPMs a lot higher than I like (maybe I need to read the manual? )