Flail Mower Caroni TM1900 flail mower vs. Woodmaxx FM-78 flail mower, which to buy, any others?

[alexpops]

Follow up: I've had this mower since the end of June and started using it around July 4. My area has had the wettest summer in anyone's living memory (per a neighbor who's a 70 year old retired farmer) and between rain and wet fields, and other projects, I've had limited chances to mow. So I have about 12 hours mowing with it so far, and I won't say that's an exhaustive test by any means.

That said, the mower meets my expectations and, at this time, I would buy it again if I were in the same position.

Overall the unit seems more robust and a little better designed than the Caroni TM1900. Not huge differences, but just a lot of minor things, kind of like comparing a 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton truck from the same maker and year.

Mowing performance is what I expect. I'm at a different farm and have a different tractor than before, so it's not apples-to-apples, but based on memory the Woodmaxx with Y-knives seems to mow just as well as the Caroni with Y-knives, and actually seems to mulch a little better. It also seems to get bogged down occasionally in really heavy grass, but I mean really, really heavy grass and goldenrod that hasn't been mowed in 5+ years, and in some cases is up to six feet tall. When I see it coming or hear it bogging I simply lift the mower off the ground a bit and it speeds up and does fine.

My only real complaint is that the safety shield where the PTO shaft comes into the mower is too small and awkward, and it was necessary to remove the shield to attach the PTO shaft correctly. If Woodmaxx is reading this, change your PTO shield fasteners to some kind of quick-release so that the PTO can be accessed reasonably, and the shield put back in place, in 1-2 minutes rather than 30 minutes of wrenching fasteners with nylock nuts. This is the mower end so you won't have to deal with this issue very often, but it is an area for improvement.

A second, nearly trivial point, is that the bolts connecting the toplink tower to the mower body should have smooth portions where they are inside the metal holes and threads only where the nut goes on, instead of being threaded their entire length. This may not matter much in use, but it would be the better way of doing things. However, this is nothing that should slow you down from buying the mower, and if you want to correct this yourself (I might) it will only cost a few dollars to buy the correct bolts locally.

How good was cut quality? Will this really replace both a finish and bush hog or is it a cleaner bush/sloppy finish? Which blades? Seriously looking at the 72H for 80% lawn with pond bank/exposed roots & 20% bush hogging along overgrown fence lines & woods trails. Any info appreciated.

 

[leonz]

If you invest in a finish cut flail mower with four rows of side slicer knives you will be able to handle everything. you will just have to raise the cutting height when you are mowing the rough areas.

 

[alexpops]

Thanks for the reply Leonz. I know that you don't particularly like these due to construction/design weaknesses (rigidity & susceptibility to wracking I think) somewhere around p190 in the big flail thread (you may have expanded later, but I haven't gotten through more than about p 210). The caroni BSCs seem to be great for pasture/light woody stuff based on owner reviews in the other thread & if the 1900 fsc was easily available, I'd probably already have pulled the trigger, but the BSC with only two rows seems like it might wind up being a bit rough on lawn vs a finish mower. Granted the Woodmaxx has fewer knives, but the flat hammers seem to have a decent overlap based on the pics. If the Caronis have a workable hammer I'd really be hard pressed. I have (will have) a 50hp LS with 43 pto hp & one of the goals is to avoid the 4 hours of "lawn" mowing I currently have to do every week to 10 days (florida) on an old 42" gas rider I inherited with the house. Roughing the fence line & trails I know will be slow going the first time, but after that the BSC seems would be fine on those areas. I'm really looking for an "all in one", even though I will be keeping the 42 incher for some narrow areas that just won't take a bigger tractor. I may be asking too much, in which case it's probably between the caroni & this woodmaxx first, then a finish flail (or rotary) when I find a good used one at auction or CL. I have lots of shallow exposed roots (live & water oak & some cedar nubs near the pond that kill the rider deck -- one reason I like the woodmax is the hammers to take that stuff down to a level that doesn't hinder later mowing), lots of broken branches after winds & a fair amount of Spanish moss that bogs down the gasser each time I hit a wad. I'm assuming that any of these flails At a slow enough speed would handle that on the lawn, as well as take care of the palm fronds/overgrown ginger/saplings along the fences. Am I missing something? PM me if you prefer as you seem to be the guru on this subject.

 

[Z-Michigan]

How good was cut quality? Will this really replace both a finish and bush hog or is it a cleaner bush/sloppy finish? Which blades? Seriously looking at the 72H for 80% lawn with pond bank/exposed roots & 20% bush hogging along overgrown fence lines & woods trails. Any info appreciated.

I don't have much to add beyond the post you quoted. The cut quality will not make a putting green or other "ooooh it's fancy" lawn surface, but it's as good as I care about for general use, and I have a small riding mower for the lawn right by my house - mostly because it's not smart to operate a 5500lb utility tractor next to the house, over my various buried lines, etc. on a regular basis, and my R1 tires would seal the deal even if weight didn't.

I've owned the equivalent model Caroni and, so far, I think the Woodmaxx is better in most if not all ways. Ask me again in 3-4 years - the real test!!!

I have no doubt that the $5000+ US-made (and comparable Italian-made) flail mowers are more rugged and nicer, just as a Mercedes C-class is nicer than a Nissan Sentra, despite both being about the same size and purpose. Ask yourself how many acres you're really mowing annually and the answer will probably be obvious, either way.

 

[alexpops]

Thanks z. Sounds like you're happy with your decision.

 

[leonz]

Hello alexpops,

Keep in mind at all times that you will ding the knives either the hammer or scoop type every time you have an impact versus raising the mower by one adjustment to clear the roots.

Also keep in mind that the scoop and hammer type knives will not recut the brush/grass on the first or second pass.

Please look up drjays posts and photos before you spend your money as he has a Caroni finish cut flail flail at his home in the Ocala(more cows than people) area.

Short of buying a landpride/imported maschio flail mower with recutting bars and a discharge door for heavy brush concentrations I do not think you will be happy.

 

[lpigott]

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[GardenGekko]

Also keep in mind that the scoop and hammer type knives will not recut the brush/grass on the first or second pass.

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Hello Leonz - could you elaborate on that point? My understanding (at least based on the woodmaxx site) is that their mower comes in two blade styles - duck foot (synonymous with hammer?) and Y-blades.

Are you saying that the duck foot blade will only do a course cut, and not "mulch" the material? What will the Y-blades do?

Thanks so much for all the information you provide!

 

[leonz]

Hello Leonz - could you elaborate on that point? My understanding (at least based on the woodmaxx site) is that their mower comes in two blade styles - duck foot (synonymous with hammer?) and Y-blades.

Are you saying that the duck foot blade will only do a course cut, and not "mulch" the material? What will the Y-blades do?

Thanks so much for all the information you provide!

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The scoop type flail mower knife blades will not shred the clippings as they will only cut the material once and not recut it.

Once the material is cut by the scoop knife edge it will lift it up and carry it over the flail mower rotor but it will not recut it a second time as the hammers/scoop knives do not create a large enough pressure gradient(suction) to lift the clippings and recut them as the flail mower advances. This is why the newer flail mowers with the cast hammer knives have the recutting bars at the rear of the flaul mower above the rear roller.

I have not looked at the new land pride flail mowers closely and given them a close candid examination.
I was not happy when I found out that LandPride was no longer importing the Maschio Orchard and Vineyard Flail mowers in Land Pride paint as they simply shot them selves in the foot as The Maschio Group has been making them for many years and they know how to build flail mowers.

The stamped, formed and heat treated scoop/duck foot knives are a compromise replacement for the cast hammer knife costing less per scoop knife.

The Maschio Group did not make a mistake in using recutting bars as they knew that their customers wanted to have finer clippings and the recutting bars added to their flail mowers allowed the end user to have a finer clipping where the mnaterial was shredded after it was sheared off by the hammer knife.

The side slicer knifes create lift and are able to recut the clipping a second time as the knive pairs following the leading knife pairs will lift and cut the material a second time and if needed the flail mower will continue to recut the material if desired until the clippings are very small.

 

[lpigott]

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The Maschio Group did not make a mistake in using recutting bars as they knew that their customers wanted to have finer clippings and the recutting bars added to their flail mowers allowed the end user to have a finer clipping where the mnaterial was shredded after it was sheared off by the hammer knife.

Assume you suggest the recutting bars are desirable? The Woodmaxx units have recutting bars... I am considering the larger FM-96H unit but will not buy until next spring. It appears to be a quality unit but I guess only time will tell. Have you seen any of the larger WM units in person?WoodMaxx FM-96H Flail mower - YouTube