Carry permit. Would traffic stop make police be more cautious? yea or nay?

[/pine]

I'm not sure journalists were ever held to a standard of being beyond reproach...the closest I can think of would have been Walter Cronkite, but even he spun things to his own viewpoint. There was a time when the line wasn't blurred between entertainment and information, when a network with "news" in their name wasn't hosting a bunch of people (not journalists) sitting on a couch and spewing various thoughts and theories and when they're called on it say "it's just entertainment".

I will trust a media enterprise who, when they get it wrong, cop to it and print a retraction or correction and offer more than a bunch of talking heads shouting into the wind with their various conspiracies (9/11 Inside Job, birtherism, etc.).

Most journalists try and get it right, the problem is sifting through all the manure to find the kernel of actual news. I don't care about what Trump tweets, it's all a distraction from what is actually going on. I could give a hoot about Caitlyn, or Kim or some bozo at the state fair eating corn...it's all a distraction from poorly executed government, robbing health care from millions or "trickle down" economics.

At least most journalists have degrees and can execute some critical thinking. Most cops don't have degrees haven't been educated beyond high school, and by and large don't have or utilize critical thinking skills. They aren't paid well mostly, and I think that plays into their corruptibility.

I was referring to more of the likes of Edward R. Murrow etc...These days the tabloids are just as if not more credible than major market fish wraps...when TV became relevant I preferred the Huntley-Brinkley Report over Walter...

To say most LEOs are not educated beyond high school is inaccurate IMO...most larger departments require some advanced classroom education (i.e. college) not necessarily a full degree but I think you would be surprised on how many recruits do have bachelor degrees though...Something else to note on the topic is many departments have relaxed their qualifications to eliminate previous uses of marihuana etc. as a non hire check mark...

 

[k0ua]

I learned long, long ago that you will NEVER change some individuals' minds about any authority figure, especially police officers. My maternal grandfather, after whom I was named, wanted nothing more to do with me when I became an officer. He thought all police officers were crooks and I'm sure there was no way his mind could be changed. I just said I was going to join the police department and find out what kind of people they were.

Well, as most people know, but seem to forget sometimes, the only place we have from which to hire police officers is the human race, and they ain't all perfect. And there are certainly a lot of the wrong kind of people who want to be officers. I was my department's first recruiting officer as a patrolman and some years later I was commander of the personnel division and had the final say as to whom we hired and whom we rejected. I can remember a time when only 3% (yep, 3 out of 100) applicants were accepted. You probably wouldn't believe the reasons some of the applicants wanted to be officers.

However . . . ., we still got some bad ones at times, and we always will. When I started, I was in a recruit class of 29. One was later fired for a petty theft and one was sent to prison for burglary. I can think of a couple of others (not in that recruit class) who were sent to the state prison during my tenure. And I, personally, got resignations from a couple of bad officers, and did the necessary paperwork to fire some.

AND . . . . I can tell you for sure that some of the finest, most honest, individuals I've known were police officers, and as you would expect, some of the sorriest individuals I've known were police officers. IN MY OPINION, it pretty much boils down to the departments' management; the chief, assistant chiefs, captains, etc. If they insist on their officers following the rules, you'll have a good department, but if they were not good honest officers themselves; just good politicians, you'll have problems.

I agree with this 100%. While I was a regular, we had a sworn officer who was also a town martial, so he was a "dual officer" which was common for our region at the time, who was caught and charged for burglary. He was the only policeman in this small town, and he was running a burglary ring. He would act as lookout keeping radio watch on our frequency, and when he was dispatched to a burglary in progress he would call his cohorts on the CB radio and tell them "it is time to clear out", and then run code 3 to the burglary scene. He would normally be backed up by our county officers, but by the time all arrived, the bad guys would be gone.

In any case our detective division figured it out, and arrested this mook, and his cohorts.

All that said, most cops are good honest men and women doing a very hard job. Of course some slip thru the cracks and are bad apples.

I do agree though that police officers and the community as a whole would benefit from more and better weapons training. I used to shoot with many officers in the competitive game, and while some of them were very very good, and trained competitively all the time, some would only show up and think they were such hotshots, and when an old fat man like me outshot them, and in fact most of the competitors outshot them, they became a little discouraged, and did not show up again. Instead of staying and training with us and getting better, they became embarrassed and quit.

But I felt very good about the ones who were superior competitors, and I knew that when the chips were down, they could shoot.

 

[Bird]

I do agree though that police officers and the community as a whole would benefit from more and better weapons training. I used to shoot with many officers in the competitive game, and while some of them were very very good, and trained competitively all the time, some would only show up and think they were such hotshots, and when an old fat man like me outshot them, and in fact most of the competitors outshot them, they became a little discouraged, and did not show up again. Instead of staying and training with us and getting better, they became embarrassed and quit.

I know that I'm in the minority, but I always carried a 6 shot revolver, and while I never considered myself to be any great shot, I did qualify many times for marksmanship awards; which simply meant that I scored 90 or better for 3 consecutive 6 month qualifications. But now they carry 14 shot semi-autos with at least one spare (and usually 2 spare) magazines. So instead of accuracy, I'm afraid many of them subscribe to the "spray and pray" theory of shooting. I'm amazed when I read or hear news stories of police shootings and the huge number of shots fired.

 

[ovrszd]

I know that I'm in the minority, but I always carried a 6 shot revolver, and while I never considered myself to be any great shot, I did qualify many times for marksmanship awards; which simply meant that I scored 90 or better for 3 consecutive 6 month qualifications. But now they carry 14 shot semi-autos with at least one spare (and usually 2 spare) magazines. So instead of accuracy, I'm afraid many of them subscribe to the "spray and pray" theory of shooting. I'm amazed when I read or hear news stories of police shootings and the huge number of shots fired.

I listened to a chilling story told by an LEO of a shooting he got involved in with what was initially thought to be an innocent guy sleeping in his truck in a public area that allowed no camping.

The LEO got shot 6 times. He fired 24 shots in the fray. I believe he would have benefitted from a mindset of "quality versus quantity".

Not taking anything away from him, miracle he survived. Just think a different training mindset might have helped.

 

[/pine]

Yikes...this is just one CA metro...

Cops 'Losing' Guns at Astonishing Rate -- Criminals Using Them to Kill Innocent People

 

[ovrszd]

Yikes...this is just one CA metro...

Cops 'Losing' Guns at Astonishing Rate -- Criminals Using Them to Kill Innocent People

Put into perspective, I'm not sure that number would be considered extreme, unless you are one of the persons shot by one.

There's certainly a lot of honesty on that website though........

 

[dragoneggs]

Ahhhh, secret knowledge that I can't discuss! Just trust me on this!

B.S.

I guess I should have kept my mouth closed. Believe what you want... my intention was not to get into a pissing contest. I worked several years on systems separation quite awhile back when airplane hijacking became a 'thing'. Boeing became an expert and changed their design philosophy, helped create new FAA rules, and El Al was a pioneer in the airline world in this matter.

 

[Soundguy]

I listened to a chilling story told by an LEO of a shooting he got involved in with what was initially thought to be an innocent guy sleeping in his truck in a public area that allowed no camping.

The LEO got shot 6 times. He fired 24 shots in the fray. I believe he would have benefitted from a mindset of "quality versus quantity".

Not taking anything away from him, miracle he survived. Just think a different training mindset might have helped.

Very much agree. While I would never tie a LEO'S arm by making him carry a revolver, I certainly think s/he might practice a bit more knowing s/he had 6 + a couple speedloaders.

For personal carry as a civilian in Florida, I'm relegated to a small frame auto. If I had choice of what to carry, and no restrictions in space or covering ( IE, on hip ). I'd for sure be carrying my 6" bbl 357 python, and have no insecurity over limited ammo capacity. I figure after the first 4-5 "volunteers" hit the express checkout aisle, that the line might go look for an easier 'register'.

 

[Sigarms]

I guess I should have kept my mouth closed. Believe what you want... my intention was not to get into a pissing contest. I worked several years on systems separation quite awhile back when airplane hijacking became a 'thing'. Boeing became an expert and changed their design philosophy, helped create new FAA rules, and El Al was a pioneer in the airline world in this matter.

If you're a aerospace structural engineer working within the airplane industry, not that it matters, but I'll tend to take your word for it over mythbusters. I can understand why you may not want to elaborate on a internet forum some information.

Just please tell me that the airplane industry isn't like the HVAC industry where PE engineers copy and paste specifications / equipment on plans per what they're looking for, when what they're copying and pasting is the wrong equipment for the application and WON'T work. I'd be afraid to fly if this is what's happening for parts being used to construct commercial airplanes :laughing:

 

[TemporaryKubotaOwnerMark]

Absolutely wrong...

A police officer is in a position of trust. Public trust. Breaching the public trust under the color of law is worse than just plain old Joe brown breaking the law.

Exactly right. A higher standard for them is just and right.

Instead, we have a double standard where it is very difficult to prosecute LEOs for breaching that public trust.