Tesla semi

[two_bit_score]

If this thread doesn't get locked,

It would be interesting to see the #'s in 5 and then 10 years. Bumping an Old thread

My bet is on a mass increase in EV/Hybrid/EREV and even hydrogen fuel cell vehicles of all kinds and sizes.

And I’m perfectly OK with that if the market develops that way. The thing I object to is the massive tax subsidies going to support EV’s. We don’t need multiple Solyndra’s.

The EV supporters are by EV like welfare proponents are about food stamps, unemployment, welfare, etc. They act like and try to convenience others that is basically free. It’s not.

 

[Redneck in training]

Including the real cost to manufacture, not deducting subsidies.

Oil and gas gets 15.5 billion/year subsidy in direct payment or tax breaks from federal goevernment and 3 billion from the states. Needles to say that it is not only O&G that gets those. If you add cost of defending of shipping routes the cost jumps to about estimated 52 billion/year.

 

[tungularafishcamp]

What is the cost difference to operate a Semi-truck (in a local metro area)? For example within the Los Angeles area, not long-haul. 1 year on Diesel .vs. 1 year on Electricity 2017 numbers.

I hadn't thought about local trucking, only long haul, maybe the time is now for that use of an EV to be more cost effective! The heavy urban areas have more problem with air pollution which would give EVs an extra leg up, plus you eliminate the problem with recharging, as long as you aren't running the trucks 24/7.

All you folks screaming about the true cost of EVs, what is the true cost of oil production? Are you taking into account all the subsidies the oil industry gets? V or any entity for that matter that can afford to buy its politicians! Don't forget to add in all the help the internal combustion engine has gotten the last hundred years with all the government funding directly and indirectly, both nationally and internationally. I can't imagine anyone every figuring out the 'true" cost of anything!

 

[Sodo]

Including the real cost to manufacture, not deducting subsidies.

Those are too hard to trace with current fake news and stuff. And nobody cares about truth, they only care what their "team" wants them to believe.

what is the true cost of oil production? Are you taking into account all the subsidies the oil industry gets? V or any entity for that matter that can afford to buy its politicians!

There's significant military cost to keep the oil producing countries in line with what the investment sectors want. Probably NEVER get those numbers, but it's staggering. And what does blood cost? What does a politician cost?

Keep it to simple "fuel" costs, just what a trucker will see. What does a fleet operator have to pay for? Or an owner-operator? Just look at fuel dollars per mile.(electricity or diesel). There's no road tax on the electricity so deduct the taxes from the fuel.

This is simple for someone who has the real numbers. And it's the simple information that any fleet, or owner-operator wants to know.

So what are we dealing with here? What savings goes into the owner-operator's pocket, if he runs an electric Semi?

 

[tungularafishcamp]

Plus not counting the fuel fuel costs which are obviously going to be way cheaper, the maintenance cost would be much cheaper, and if you added regenerative braking to the trailers as well, maintenance costs would drop even more!

Would you even need gearing with an electric truck or would properly sized motors for the full load take care of it???

 

[Redneck in training]

What is the cost difference to operate a Semi-truck (in a local metro area)?
For example within the Los Angeles area, not long-haul.

1 year on Diesel
.vs.
1 year on Electricity

2017 numbers.

That can be estimated. In example average lenght of Fedex delivery route is about 160 miles. 5-7 miles/gal. Estimated cost of charging is about 10% of the diesel cost. 160 miles, day translates to about 50000 miles/year divided by 6 MPG times $2.5/gal of diesel plust 10 oil changes. Cost of fuel and oil is about $21500/year. Estimated cost of charging is about 2150/year. I am just guessing cost increase of electric truck be about 50000 (most likely it is less). So if the life of the vehicle is 500000 miles the saving on the fuel will be about $185000. Needlesto say the cost of oil based fuels is volatile so it might be way more or way less.

 

[Redneck in training]

Oil and gas gets 15.5 billion/year subsidy in direct payment or tax breaks from federal goevernment and 3 billion from the states. Needles to say that it is not only O&G that gets those. If you add cost of defending of shipping routes the cost jumps to about estimated 52 billion/year.

It translates in about 0.10 USD/gal.

 

[Redneck in training]

Plus not counting the fuel fuel costs which are obviously going to be way cheaper, the maintenance cost would be much cheaper, and if you added regenerative braking to the trailers as well, maintenance costs would drop even more!

Would you even need gearing with an electric truck or would properly sized motors for the full load take care of it???

You don't need to add regenerative braking to the trailer. You get all the energy of the trailer as it is pushing on the truck as long as you don't use mechanical brakes. Electric motor has maximum torque at zero rpm so no gearbox is necessary provided you can cool it. If the motor uses shaft mounted fan for cooling than you will have only fraction of minute to speed it up to high speed. Therefore most EV motors are liquid cooled and have sinle ratio step down gearbox.

 

[Sodo]

So if the life of the vehicle is 500000 miles the saving on the fuel will be about $185000. Needlesto say the cost of oil based fuels is volatile so it might be way more or way less.

--If that's true-- it would be a very sensible change for any operator, and put a lot of $$$,$$$ back in their pockets.

So ---- if that's true --- it would be VERY compelling for a truck mfr.
And for an operator.
And for that matter, for a country who whats to keep on top (the USA?) of the truck market.

But that would spell significant losses to the "petroleum investment sector" who would then need to do a few things to fight it.

Reduce the price of fuel to reduce the economy of electric vehicles. But that "costs" profit.

Pour massive $$$ into keeping the public from supporting such a thing, (or supporting such government incentives). How do you think the petroleum industry would fight off such a formidable rival as electricity? Fund a network that will publish fake TV news? Paying lots of fake news websites. Maybe hire Public relations firms who use forum trolls to spread the confusion? Buy politicians?

Sounds like a daunting task, but really all it takes is money and a calculation of "return on investment" and it makes a lot of sense.

 

[TemporaryKubotaOwnerMark]

Oil and gas gets 15.5 billion/year subsidy in direct payment or tax breaks from federal goevernment and 3 billion from the states. Needles to say that it is not only O&G that gets those. If you add cost of defending of shipping routes the cost jumps to about estimated 52 billion/year.

Defending shipping routes is not a subsidy. It's the cost of living in this world as it is.

As to the rest of them, let's just eliminate them all. Every single tax break, every single direct or indirect subsidy, to anybody and everybody. No picking favorites, no shaping" the economy. That's not a legitimate function of governments, and never was.

Then we don't have to argue about it and we can really find out which technologies/products/services offer genuine value, which means we can stop paying for those that don't, but have the right connections.

Once we stop all of that, the free market value of a politician drops like a rock, which, oddly enough, is actually a good thing.