robstaples
Gold Member
Good to know. Plc would support calendar recovery time table but lots of extra work. Unless you like to tinker, commercial products have been tested for bugs.
Thanks.
Thanks.
need advice how to plumb 3000 gallon surge pressure tank. for water.
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RedNeckRacin
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I agree, I don't see the benefit of having a 3000 gallon pressure tank. Produce the well at 2 gpm however your heart desires and use the large tank as a surge tank to supply your needs when the demand is higher than 2 gpm. Use a jet pump above ground in the shed to supply the system with water. Ever hear of the KISS principle? "Keep It Simple Stupid." That's not an insult, it means don't rube goldberg a simple problem into a complex one.
TemporaryKubotaOwnerMark
Veteran Member
Agreed! You are making this far too complicated!
I used to work in commercial plumbing for a manufacturer's rep, so I had to learn a bit about such systems.
This statement here (among others) says that your misunderstandings are at such a fundamental level that you should not be trying to design this yourself:
Thank You redneck after reading all the other reply's YOU and only You have the best grip on this subject.
so yes in the large surge tank the air will mix with the water at some point and lose air pressure.
There are stock tank ballcocks that i could install inside the tank to stop flow when the level is appropriate.
Our first design was no electric devices or pumps inside this building . The surge tank design should work seamlessly with the operation of the smaller 60gallon tank inside the house.
the inside tank has all the pressure switch and monitors to control this large tank that will be hooked inline.
I guess im stuck with 1/2 inch ballcocks most widely available unless i scab out a old dishwasher fill level valve.
Im guessing the air pressure loss will be a non issue if the fill level valve is used (what you suggested).
the trick is to design the fill valve small enough where it does not compete with normal house hold use of the water.
we dont care if it takes 3 days thru a tiny hose to refill this tank. (typically the math says a normal house uses 300 gallons of water a day usually in 4-5 hours)
we want this tank to refill and use the well for the other 20 hours when we are away.
the well produces enough water during the WINTER 10gpm,, to refill the tank nearly instantly. But the heavy use is during the SUMMER when the flow in the well reduces to 2gmp.
so redneck do you think placing a air pressure control valve ontop of the water tank will keep the air pressure up? the stock tank valve will fill the tank and stop the water.
but then we have air loss. I could add the pressure valve atop the tank and set the max pressure to 60psi. I think we could easily install a air compressor in the building feeding the top of the tank.
the building is just 20 feet from 110volt power.
so yes in the large surge tank the air will mix with the water at some point and lose air pressure.
There are stock tank ballcocks that i could install inside the tank to stop flow when the level is appropriate.
Our first design was no electric devices or pumps inside this building . The surge tank design should work seamlessly with the operation of the smaller 60gallon tank inside the house.
the inside tank has all the pressure switch and monitors to control this large tank that will be hooked inline.
I guess im stuck with 1/2 inch ballcocks most widely available unless i scab out a old dishwasher fill level valve.
Im guessing the air pressure loss will be a non issue if the fill level valve is used (what you suggested).
the trick is to design the fill valve small enough where it does not compete with normal house hold use of the water.
we dont care if it takes 3 days thru a tiny hose to refill this tank. (typically the math says a normal house uses 300 gallons of water a day usually in 4-5 hours)
we want this tank to refill and use the well for the other 20 hours when we are away.
the well produces enough water during the WINTER 10gpm,, to refill the tank nearly instantly. But the heavy use is during the SUMMER when the flow in the well reduces to 2gmp.
so redneck do you think placing a air pressure control valve ontop of the water tank will keep the air pressure up? the stock tank valve will fill the tank and stop the water.
but then we have air loss. I could add the pressure valve atop the tank and set the max pressure to 60psi. I think we could easily install a air compressor in the building feeding the top of the tank.
the building is just 20 feet from 110volt power.
I have run 1,000 kid high school on a 5 gpm well yield.
If you have things all figured out just go for it. If you want other options than the one you have have your mind fixed on then I for one can only answer your question by saying use a Dole flow control rather than trying to find a pipe which will flow 2 gpm. It does not exist as pressures and lengths vary and all affect flow rate. |The Dole is designed to deal with the variations in pressure while producing a constant output you have selected when you buy it.
I am with others who suggest having a large tank with no air/water separator membrane storing water at 60 psi pressure is making matters complicated for no benefit.
If your well pumps at 2 usgpm, add a simple dole flow control for about $30 to the pump output and then it will run keeping pace with the well output.
This explains the operating principle:
This is where you can buy them:
Control Water Flow Rates - Dean Bennett Supply
Store your water in the big tank at atmospheric pressure.
Use a shallow well pump like this $82 one from Home depot to pressure and supply water where you need it.
Acquaer 1/2 HP Dual Voltage Cast Iron Shallow Well Jet Pump-SJC5 - The Home Depot
Having a large atmospheric above ground tank has the added benefit of allowing any dissolved gases to vent off when there is no pressure keeping them dissolved in the water.
Dave M7040
thanks dave...yes ive seen large farms run on low flow wells 3/4gpm they usually use your method with 3 inline 2000 gallon poly tanks.
they choke the pipe from the well pump as you suggested. and slowly fill 6000 gallons of tanks.
we however have no hill.....to place our tanks on and we are very rural so the power outages occur up to 30-40 times a year.
we went with this surge tank because it was cheap...bullet proof..literately we have to design keep bullets out. and we wanted pressure to feed 1000ft of branch pipes to the horses.
1 inch poly 200psi type @1000ft is the current design.
we experience 30-40 power outages per year and the system is rural....so we designed the tank to be bullet proof. bullets fly in this area as well as rocks from the mower.
we don't have a hill where we can place a 2000 gallon poly 20-30 foot above the house for static pressure lines.
MossRoad
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I'd just put the tank up on some legs (or uphill) so its higher than the house, fill the tank from the well and eliminate all these other components. Just seems overly complicated.
Really....your telling a Machinist aerospace technician that has built 100,000 trucks with robotic cnc programing and electric background that I cant understand simple basic design of a ballcock in a water tank. OMG. your Hopeless...Hey im 58 with 4 years of college and 40 years in industrial settings. Ive designed electrical systems that make your head spin.
The basic hope of the post was to see how other people would design this, and see if they have insight into new products and math tables that would help.
