Kioti ck20s tractor putting mahindra 3710 backhoe on use pto to power it??

[Billself]

I got a really good deal on mahindra 3710 backhoe and i need to no if i can put a pump on the PTO. I dont have wet lines on tractor and i dont no where to T them safley to make the backhoe work,plus i would like to put external pump on just in case i tear something up i still have my pump for front loader. talked to dealer around me ,no one has wet lines for my ck20s and it would be a lot more exspensive than just putting pump to pto so what you guys think can i put the pump on pto safely. I know the mahindra hoe came off of has 33 hp and i think the pump on it has 4.7 gpm but don't know PTO hp , the ck20s has i think 16 or 17 hp on the pto side will that be enough. any help would be great at this point just dont wanna wing it and tear a bunch of stuff up. Thanks

 

[Billself]

Hello any help you can give me would be great Thank you

 

[DK35vince]

The specs show that as a 7' 10" digging depth hoe.
May be to big for a CK 20. (don't know what sizes hoe were used on that model)
PTO HP wouldn't be an issue, you have enough power. Just the physical size of that hoe might be a bit much for your machine.
The Kioti subframe and mounts would be highly recommended to mount that hoe IMO.

 

[Billself]

Well it is a little bit bigger than what it calls for but I'm careful about my tractor no steep hills sideways no taking risks with me or my stuff. as far as the sub frame the mahindra hoe came with a sub frame already so i intend on modifing it to what i need or overkilling it as my friends say. the only thing i cant figure out is how come when i look for a PTO pump for it they all come with more GPM than what it takes to run a hoe the mahindra has 4.7GPM and the samallest PTO pump i can find is a 7GPM and i'm afraid it might heat up my oil or do some damage to something any ideas?

 

[DK35vince]

Well it is a little bit bigger than what it calls for but I'm careful about my tractor no steep hills sideways no taking risks with me or my stuff. as far as the sub frame the mahindra hoe came with a sub frame already so i intend on modifing it to what i need or overkilling it as my friends say. the only thing i cant figure out is how come when i look for a PTO pump for it they all come with more GPM than what it takes to run a hoe the mahindra has 4.7GPM and the samallest PTO pump i can find is a 7GPM and i'm afraid it might heat up my oil or do some damage to something any ideas?

I'm no hydraulic expert, but I doubt 7 GPM pump would be a problem. That's probably maximum flow at PTO speed.
Just run lower RPM's so the backhoe speed is where you like it for smooth operation.

 

[Billself]

how can i find out about hydraulic Gpm and what the best pump for my application would be I've tried asking my local dealer and he has not got a good clue about anything hydraulic then i tried the net but all they want to talk about is log splitters so anyway i'm stuck HELP

 

[Billself]

If i put on a pump with 7GPM pump and the tractor it came off of only puts out 4.7 GPM will that make my oil heat up also i've got a 5 to 6 gal oil tank to put on it .What do you guys think

 

[Everhard]

Biggest question is the size. I'd check the spec weight of that hoe and compare it to the stock unit. The stock unit with the frame is quite heavy and from what I've read makes the front feel light. If the hoe you've got is even heavier it's going to add to that effect. Not to mention it'll put more forces on the mounting points.

You absolutely can install rear hydraulic ports on your ck20s. I did it on mine (Stock Kioti parts I bought from my dealer.) and run my hoe from those. Not that you couldn't run it off the pto of course. I typically run mine between 1800 and 2000rpm.

My hoe is a NH hoe which spec'd very similar to the Kioti stock unit. (lighter in weight and slightly less power) I've put a lot of hours on it now, no complaints. The ck20 is a tough little tractor - having said that I'd definitely suggest you need a frame mount. My hoe can easily move the tractor around. If you're not careful you can easily exert a lot of force thru the tractor via the hoe. I'm not sure how much more force that hoe would exert on the tractor but I'd be cautious for sure.

E.

 

[Billself]

I do like my ck20s it seems like a tough tractor and front loader sure comes in handy the mahindra hoe is a little bigger than a original backhoe for a ck20 but I have given a lot of thought to this hoe idea and yes it does have a subframe that i intend to modify and put under the ck20. I still want to be able to take it off easily if i want too and as for the power that it will have i am going to work with the pop off valve a little as not to let it tear up the ck20 the only thing that worries me is the pump from the pto I know enough about hydraulics to get me in trouble and i think if i can get a small enough GPM to RPM setup it should work good, only thing is getting the right combination. PTO speed is 540 and the GPM should be 4.7 like stock mahindra well I can't seem to find that combination that will slip on and off the pto anywhere, dont know if im looking in the wrong spot or if i'm looking at it the wrong way for example if found a pump that pumps 9GPM at 1000 RPM if bring the rpm down to 540 then will it pump around 4.5GPM or am i looking at it wrong???

 

[Everhard]

Another factor to consider is using a pto pump means you'll also need a very large tank of hydraulic oil as well which will have to have a home some where on the hoe (which will likely be awkward to figure out) and will add even more weight.
I would strongly suggest you get the kit to add the rear remotes to your tractor. That will add versatility to it for other options down the road. I also when I was considering different hoe options also looked at pto driven units or converting one to pto. In the end I'm very happy I went with the factor remotes. I guess at the end of the day it'll cost you no more then adding a pto pump setup for that hoe but will be a much more useful and cleaner solution. Your comment of not wanting to possibly "tear something up" by using the tractor's hydraulics is really not valid. The whole hydraulic system is protected with over pressure limits. Frankly I'd be more worried about tearing something up physically on the tractor before I'd be worried about the hydraulic system.

E.

 

[Billself]

hydraulic place told me that a 7GPM pump needs to have at least a 7gal tank and i thing i have one to put behind the seat. the pump for the pto will cost me around 400.00 and the remote lines are around 1200.00 so i gotta put the pto pump on as far as tearing up something physically, well i think as the sub frame its really strong after my welding and bracing also the tractor should be able to haul it and the weight of the tank if i cant get it behind the seat then ill weld it on the sub frame ,its small enough where it wont be in my way of ground or front loader. Might have to do a little more measuring to see if have room but i hope it does one way or another.

 

[TMGT]

I haven't done power beyond lines on a ck20 but I believe you should be able to do it for a couple hundred max with off the shelf parts. I doubt you have to buy the rear remotes to accomplish what you want to do.
If you can get to the power beyond line off the loader valve (goes between the loader valve and 3pt) you can make it work with a couple fittings and hoses.

 

[Everhard]

With the fuel tank being where it is, I'm not sure where you think you'll put the hydraulic tank? In fact because of that fuel tank the hoe sits relatively far back on a CK20. Look at the stock setup. Mine (NH hoe) has the same issue - I've got it as close to the fuel tank as I can but it still sits relatively far back.
When I modified the NH frame to connect to the tractor I went with a system very similar to how Kioti does it. Really happy with that setup. I can hook/unhook my hoe in 3-5 minutes tops.
Lastly not to beat a dead horse but where did you get the quote for $1200 for the rear remote kit? I'm positive I didn't pay anywhere close to that amount. I would expect it to be half that at the most. (Sorry I don't remember what I paid now - other than it wasn't $1200!)

E.

 

[Billself]

I went to johnsons equip. sales and they said it would be around 1200.00 for the remote kit , it did sound like a lot to me but i never questioned the man because he has worked there for 20+ years (what he said) but i did price the pto pump its gonna be 400.00. So far i haven't priced the remote lines but I don't think i can make the remote lines without a lot of work to my tractor I really dont want to mess up anything on tractor, its all stock. if i were to make the remote lines I would have to tie in to original lines of the front loader don't think i'm good enough to make it look like a factory job also for the tank it needs to be 7gal tank and i was thinking about putting it under seat where the seat bends back there is a space there that will be open may be able to mount it there and make it look pretty good (no cobble look) and should only make a 50 pound difference. I know there is gonna be a lot of weight on the sub frame and i plan on making it as close the tractor fuel tank as possible without rubbing, it might make the front a little lite but i could put some weight on the front bumper guard to compensate for the weight in back. I will check if i can find remote lines for the kioti at a resonable price but dealer said they no longer make remotes for them, but i'll see if i can price a set. thanks guys for the info keep it coming you got me thinking there are better ways to make it work.

 

[Billself]

what does the power beyond hose do on the backhoe of the mahindra do i just block it off when i put the pto pump on or does it have as much power as say what goes to the controller... as far as making remote lines for ck20s haven't had a chance to get a real good look at this option yet don't know if i can pull it off with a clean look

 

[Amvcane]

Any chance of posting some pics of the backhoe unmounted with the tractor backed up to it about where it will be when mounted?
Also, instead of remotes, I vaguely remember a thread about a " line kit " that Kioti offered for the backhoe.

 

[Billself]

the backhoe is on a trailer right now, didn't want to set it on the ground until i get everything ready to put it together with and as far as the inline kit iv'e been looking for a ck20s kit for my kioti and haven't found anything yet can't find anything for the ck20s i guess they don't carry them anymore or something