Will a JD310 run an irrigation pump?

[WinterDeere]

Is this a hydraulically-driven pump or PTO? If hydraulic, what's the output capacity of the 310, in terms of pressure/flow curve?

 

[rScotty]

Is this a hydraulically-driven pump or PTO? If hydraulic, what's the output capacity of the 310, in terms of pressure/flow curve?

Plans are now to look into using a hydraulically-driven centrifugal pump.
Output of the JD 310 aux. hydraulics is 25 GPM at 2000psi - roughly equivalent to a 30 hp PTO.

That gives a 2.5x capacity reserve for the hydraulic motor which is driving the trash pump at 200 GPM and 100 psi. And that's not taking into account the reserve power available from the 90 hp primary diesel engine.

So there is plenty of driving power.
The 310 should be able to drive the hydraulic motor+trash pump at idle.
That's partly what makes it so attractive. Hopefully JD will see it that way, too.

 

[WinterDeere]

You're thinking along the right lines. Engine HP is mostly irrelevant here, the hydraulic system of the 310 is the limiting factor.

But as you noted, you've got 2.5x the required power available. So as long as pump efficiency is above 40%, and none of the hoses are undersized enough to eat into capacity, you've got more than sufficient power.

Note, reserve power from 310 hydraulics is actually 3.3x your original 150 gpm * 99 psi numbers... even better.

 

[zzvyb6]

if its that important and would be called upon to save my property, I'd trade it for a tractor that would do the jobs required, including loader, pump, pto generator, pto blower/broom. All for prep & recovery from a field/forest fire.

 

[WinterDeere]

It's also worth noting, if you're counting on this to save your property, I'm some random guy on the internet who knows basic physics. I'm hardly a pumps expert.

 

[4570Man]

Wouldn’t it be a lot easier to get a readily available PTO pump and use it on your M59?

 

[WinterDeere]

Wouldn’t it be a lot easier to get a readily available PTO pump and use it on your M59?

I was thinking the same. I have PTO pumps for my sprayers, and while a heck of a lot smaller than the OP is talking, I'd think that'd be easier. Definitely way more HP available at the PTO than thru hydraulics.

Would priming them from a lake in an emergency be trouble? I'm not sure what the "dry lift" (not sure of term) would be, when you just drop a suction hose into a pond a few feet below the tractor.

 

[Engineer42]

Thompson Pumps used to have a hydraulic submersible 4" pump that ran off of a John Deere power unit. It worked very well. Can't remember the hp of the power unit, but I'm sure it was equal to or less than your 310SG, which is what, around 80-90 hp?

 

[rScotty]

if its that important and would be called upon to save my property, I'd trade it for a tractor that would do the jobs required, including loader, pump, pto generator, pto blower/broom. All for prep & recovery from a field/forest fire.

I was stuck on gear drive PTOs too..... until it occured to me that the ony difference was hydraulic PTO motors had flexible hoses instead of rotating driveshafts. Lots of machines have hydraulic PTOs instead of gear-driven ones. All of your skidsteers work that way for instance.

Thompson Pumps used to have a hydraulic submersible 4" pump that ran off of a John Deere power unit. It worked very well. Can't remember the hp of the power unit, but I'm sure it was equal to or less than your 310SG, which is what, around 80-90 hp?

Thanks! That's a good solid lead I was hoping for when we started. I'll definitely follow it up.

I know now that I should be looking for a submersible unit because when the pump works submersible it finally dawned on me that means it is not limited by the suction head.

Winter Deere, I found out the technical term for "dry lift" is "suction head".

Suction head was limiting my first sketched out designs using driveshaft PTOs and pumps sitting out of the water. Suction limits any non-submersible to about 20 feet above the water before the losses begin to put too much limit on the output. The ultimate theoretical limit closer to 30 feet I believe (sea level). That is when the suction pulls the water apart and all you get is vapor.

And I also have found that submersible pumps can handle trash much better because they don't need such tight clearances. That makes them less expensive.

Yes, the JD310SG is 93 turbo HP gross, about 80 hp net. Hydraulic PTO hp depends on the hydraulic motor, but is plenty. A bonus is it as a big hydraulic radiator.
rScotty

 

[sd455dan]

Is this a hydraulically-driven pump or PTO? If hydraulic, what's the output capacity of the 310, in terms of pressure/flow curve?

Lots of flow at rated speed of 38 gallons a minute

according to tractordata the main pump.

I was stuck on gear drive PTOs too..... until it occured to me that the ony difference was hydraulic PTO motors had flexible hoses instead of rotating driveshafts. Lots of machines have hydraulic PTOs instead of gear-driven ones. All of your skidsteers work that way for instance.



Thanks! That's a good solid lead I was hoping for when we started. I'll definitely follow it up. I know now that I should be looking for a submersible unit because when the pump works submersible it finally dawned on me that means it is not limited by the suction head.
Suction head was limiting my first designs using driveshaft PTOs and pumps sitting out of the water. Suction limits any non-submersible to about 20 feet above the water before the losses begin to put too much limit on the output.

And I also have found that submersible pumps can handle trash much better...and are way less expensive.

Yes, the JD310SG is 93 turbo HP gross, about 80 hp net. Hydraulic PTO hp depends on the hydraulic motor, but is plenty. A bonus is it as a big hydraulic radiator.
rScotty

Hydraulics
Type	open center
Capacity	21 gal 79.5 L
Pressure	2700 psi 186.2 bar
Total flow	38 gpm 143.8 lpm
Steering flow	6.4 gpm 24.2 lpm
Steering press.

After buying a pair of 30' hydraulic lines at just under $500 for my backhoe thumb, might want to price out what those lines to the submerged pump will $$ run as well.