Is lack of training killing tractor operators?

[bcp]

But this was in an irrigated crop growing region. There were two large cattle feed lots but very little livestock raising. I think the teacher taught just what he knew best.

Bruce

 

[ovrszd]

But this was in an irrigated crop growing region. There were two large cattle feed lots but very little livestock raising. I think the teacher taught just what he knew best.

Bruce

Sadly, I'd guess you are right. My school sponsored AG related events. One in particular was a "Tractor Rodeo". Various tasks that the operator had to perform and be judged. First year I won the "backing a 4 wheel wagon" portion I was 12 years old. Another event was a "Plowing Contest". I won that event one year with an 8N and a Dearborn 2x14 3pt plow. Had to hitch the plow to the "unadjusted" tractor and plow 3 rounds thru a short field and be judged on how effective the plow was adjusted and quality of furrows made.

 

[mapper]

Sadly, I'd guess you are right. My school sponsored AG related events. One in particular was a "Tractor Rodeo". Various tasks that the operator had to perform and be judged. First year I won the "backing a 4 wheel wagon" portion I was 12 years old. Another event was a "Plowing Contest". I won that event one year with an 8N and a Dearborn 2x14 3pt plow. Had to hitch the plow to the "unadjusted" tractor and plow 3 rounds thru a short field and be judged on how effective the plow was adjusted and quality of furrows made.

Would have appreciated that in my 6th grade class, I learned how to back a four wheel wagon when I was 16 at the nursery where I worked after school. The "course" was a somewhat rutted dirt lane, with a couple of jogs in it between the glass greenhouses, there were additional obstacles in the form of pallet loads of clay pot and planting flats. A just to make it a bit more interesting the tractor was equipped with a loader (for length) and a swinging drawbar - missing its locking pin! I am proud to say I never hit anything, I did have to stop and pull forward a few times to get the whole works straightened up a bit before continuing down the lane in reverse. I sure the heck never set any records for speed in that event:laughing:

 

[s219]

Well I will probably be the cause of a new warning label. I was putting the bucket back on my L3560HSTC saturday. The locking pins were not lined up and I gave the bucket a shove to line them up. The bucket was off and on my foot before I realized what was happening. It's going to be a long 6-8 weeks.
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Ouch, that looks like it hurt. Hope it heals up OK. Were you wearing steel-toe boots? I try to wear them whenever I am working around my tractor and other equipment, but there are a few times (often in summer) where I hop on the tractor in sneakers. Definitely asking for trouble when I do that.

 

[s219]

You seem to have a good understanding of only TWO of the THREE axis's of the center of gravity. X (left and right), Y (fore and aft)....but you are forgetting the most important. Z.....the COG height.

While raising a loader bucket, especially loaded, does have little effect on the COG position side to side or fore and aft....it raises it significantly. So any change of acceleration in any direction is alot more likely to tip the tractor. Not just side to side. Hit the brakes, go down a slight grade, and you tractor is likely to be on its nose and throwing you out of the seat in a split second.

Yep, need to think about CG in three dimensions, or simply forget about three axes and think about the lever arm of the CG to various tipping points. CG may not change much fore or aft when you raise the bucket, but it sure changes vertically. Look at the lever arm of the CG relative to the downhill edge of the tire.

 

[cqaigy2]

Wow- if I keep operating this machinery I need to find a RN wife as well!!

Regarding the comment: 添ou are a pilot and do not understand CG ? I believe I do, and am curious that perhaps you do not? But, to be fair, if not, you have a lot of company in the tractor world.

Imagine a long pole under your tractor from side to side. Lift that pole and place the tractor so precisely on it that it balances perfectly and does not pitch forward nor pitch backward. That is the CG point. The side to side pole represents the lateral axis.

Imagine a long pole running under your tractor from back to front. Lift that pole and place the tractor so precisely on it so that it balances perfectly and does not tip left or right. That is the longitudinal axis.

Many confuse a raised bucket with a change to CG and an increased threat. Actually, what is more sinister is that it undermines the stability along the longitudinal axis of the tractor. Making the tractor more tippy side to side. There is only a slight change to the forward/aft CG point, since the bucket travel is mostly up and down, with only a slight amount of change forward and aft. The CG does change slightly, but that is not the problem. It is the longitudinal stability. Even tractor safety "experts" commonly get this wrong.

Imagine a single engine airplane. Now, build a mount so that engine is five feet above where it used to be. With it in that location, the front to rear CG could be balanced, but even a slight bank to the left or right during flight would quickly get exaggerated resulting in likely lost control. That is the same longitudinal instability as the raised bucket.

To create a more legitimate issue with CG using a bucket, you壇 need a telehandler. Fill the bucket, keep it the same height off the ground, but extend it forward ten feet. The rear wheels might lift of the ground, since the CG moved forward. But it would not be tippy side to side.

Anyway, the commenter helps make my point. With airplanes, I was provided quality data, including weights, charts, tables to work from, and an instructor to explain how it all fit together. With my tractor, I have far less information in a manual, with no personal instruction to fit it together. The misunderstanding about CG is an indicator of this lack of data or training. I do not advocate regulation. But I do see a very big difference between the training level for operating different, but dangerous equipment.

Nice description of force interactions on tractor.

 

[plowhog]

We dont need training, or mandatory anything. IF you dont know what you are doing, read the manual. If you still dont know, as questions. Online, dealer, other owner, etc. And if you are still unsure of yourself, you have no business owning a tractor....and then proclaiming that their should be some training mandates for everyone.

I posted two times in this thread. Post #1: "I'm not an advocate for government regulation." Post #40: "I do not advocate regulation." Umm, should I write that using all CAPS instead?

A similar example is motorcycles. How well does it work to give a new motorcycle owner a manual and tell them to: "read and figure it out." Typically, a new owner takes delivery of his shiny new two wheeled ride at the dealership. The dealer explains the controls and lets the customer ride a few circles in the parking lot. Then the happy new buyer roars off on his new purchase, only to get killed soon after when an oncoming driver makes a left turn in front of him/her leading to a fatal collision. Such accident types represent 88% of motorcycle fatalities, and they repeat over and over. Who is to blame?

In the 1970's, three competing dealers (Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki) in Northern California got tired of seeing their new customers quickly die. It was bad for business. I was part of bringing formal Motorcycle Safety Training to the area. For our first safety program, the new buyers rode their shiny new steeds to the training class.

One of the first to arrive to the first class was a man on his brand new Honda 450. He needed to make a left turn to enter the facility. He slowed for oncoming traffic, turn signal on, and as his speed dropped to near zero he fell over into the oncoming traffic lane. I watched this happen. Fortunately, the oncoming driver swerved and the only casualty were some scratches on his shiny new bike. After that, the dealers pooled together and provided training bikes kept at the facility. We required attendees to use our bikes for the initial training, until we felt more comfortable with them being on the road. The training was voluntary. Some chose it; others did not.

My experience was being a city dweller for decades. I only recently moved to rural living. When I took delivery of my tractor, on my property, the dealer set a stack of manuals to the side of the pasture. Then he fired up the diesel engine, and explained every control. The engine was still purring when he left the property. I hopped on to "try it out." I think that is typical. If there is someone, somewhere, in those circumstances that turns off the key, picks up the books, and goes inside to start reading I tip my cap to them. But I think my response was typical. Later, I did learn the hazard of turning with a raised full bucket as I did read the safety guide. After I had been operating the tractor. And with maybe 100 hrs of experience now, I've observed all sorts of other potential "gotchas."

Lastly, just to clarify, I DO NOT ADVOCATE REGULATION!!! :laughing:

 

[LD1]

I guess its hard to understand your intentions with this thread.

Sure you "say" you dont advocate regulation......but then on the other hand you are preaching about how dangerous tractors are and that their "should" be some type of training.

To be clear, I think their should be NOTHING of ANY sort. Let Darwin work his magic and thin the herd.

 

[cqaigy2]

I'd not say "preaching" is the word, i'd use.

I learned tractor driving as a youngster and i survived my stupid Darwin moments by being very lucky, and to some extent by not panicking and quickly assess what i needed to do to get things back into normal perimeters. Another BIG factor to survival, was the large number of tractor drivers that talked about tractors among other ag related things. Also if you happened to be near by when I drove by with the FEL up high in the air and somebody saying, 'Hey Dumb A. drop that FEL down!" and explained why that was an issue.

Maybe some of these stores that sell urban tractors could also give short classes on tractor driving does and don'ts even a little maintenance points thrown in as well.

 

[Citydude]

I'd not say "preaching" is the word, i'd use.

I learned tractor driving as a youngster and i survived my stupid Darwin moments by being very lucky, and to some extent by not panicking and quickly assess what i needed to do to get things back into normal perimeters. Another BIG factor to survival, was the large number of tractor drivers that talked about tractors among other ag related things. Also if you happened to be near by when I drove by with the FEL up high in the air and somebody saying, 'Hey Dumb A. drop that FEL down!" and explained why that was an issue.

Maybe some of these stores that sell urban tractors could also give short classes on tractor driving does and don'ts even a little maintenance points thrown in as well.

At first, I thought providing training was a good idea then as a former trainer on tracked dozers and rubber tired dozers, I have re-thought this. We all see the stickers on the new units we buy as well as the operators manual that goes into pretty good detail as far as hazards while operating machinery. Reading them and understanding them goes a long way towards safe operation.

The most common complaint that came back to me after someone got themselves in trouble with a piece of machinery was "I wasn't told about that in my training". And to top that off, they were usually the ones that didn't ask questions while being trained. I really don't think a dealership want's to take on that kind of liability in my opinion.